Thread: Why should I kill the edge before honing?

Originally Posted by RezDog

So you are saying that if I remove the apex mor than once during my honing session it is joining/jointing the edge and if I only do it as part of the bevel set it is killing the edge.
Or
Are you saying that if I dull the edge before I start to set the bevel, that I am killing it, and everything else is joining/jointing.
Sorry Ron, I'm just trying to get it right, I am not trying to be a thorn.

I don't feel that you are being a thorn at all. I'm not taking it that way.

In direct answer to your question, I would say that the second version is correct.

I'm just going by the terminology that has historically been used here. I consider whether or not I advocate or oppose either technique to be pretty much irrelevant but I do hope that our terms can be used in a way to avoid confusion. Maybe I'm wrong with my considered distinction between the two terms but here is how I consider them...

My first recollection of killing the edge as a common term was when Bart advocated it when he was promoting one coticule honing. I do remember it being very rarely used before that but it seemed to be in the same context. That was, that in order for a beginner to better understand when he had created an at least adequate bevel set, the beginner would take a razor that may actually feel somewhat sharp and would run that edge along a glass or a corner of a hone. This was done to create a blatantly dull edge. This way the beginner could feel a very noticeable change when he brought that edge back to sharp, supposedly when the bevel was set.

In summary, killing the edge was done as the very first thing before the beginning of setting a bevel. It's purpose was to make it easier for a beginner to realize when he had created a relatively sharp edge.

Joining or jointing the edge started being discussed when a side honing video was created. I think JimmyHAD was the first one that I recall describing it. The side honing was the primary difference in technique but it also described joining or jointing the edge in order to make a straighter edge, either by removing a burr or small chips in the edge. Later JimR's translation of Iwasaki's honing treatise was made available. Many interpreted (incorrectly in my opinion) Iwasaki's final finishing step as a description of joining/jointing. That caused an increased propagation of the method as a means of correcting flaws in the blade created during the honing process.

In summary, joining/jointing was done to remove minor defects, such as burrs or chips, in the edge that occur during honing in order to produce a cleaner edge.

LOL

You guys are funny

it is the same technique, only the degree of use is different

Ranging from Re-contouring the edge or removing huge chips during Restoration,, or a feather light touch at the later stages of honing

You are dragging the very edge (fin) of the razor across a hard surface to even up that edge, only the degree of change you want to accomplish is different

Now go back to arguing about the name,,,



to the OP: Assessing the edge first, determines what you need to do I would concentrate on getting a solid bevel set,,, it is the most important aspect of honing anyway....

The technique is the same. I only wanted to clarify the difference in their purposes.

Whaw, this is one active forum thanks for all the replies, I think I know why you should or shouldn't kill or join the edge now. AND have learned other stuff at the same time.
I've been shaving with a SR for five years, but only just ordered some honing stones to be able to revive my grand-grand fathers SR.
It's already de-rusted and shiny like a mirror, now sharpening can begin after training on some other old razors.

Originally Posted by Utopian

I don't feel that you are being a thorn at all. I'm not taking it that way.

In direct answer to your question, I would say that the second version is correct.

I'm just going by the terminology that has historically been used here. I consider whether or not I advocate or oppose either technique to be pretty much irrelevant but I do hope that our terms can be used in a way to avoid confusion. Maybe I'm wrong with my considered distinction between the two terms but here is how I consider them...

My first recollection of killing the edge as a common term was when Bart advocated it when he was promoting one coticule honing. I do remember it being very rarely used before that but it seemed to be in the same context. That was, that in order for a beginner to better understand when he had created an at least adequate bevel set, the beginner would take a razor that may actually feel somewhat sharp and would run that edge along a glass or a corner of a hone. This was done to create a blatantly dull edge. This way the beginner could feel a very noticeable change when he brought that edge back to sharp, supposedly when the bevel was set.

In summary, killing the edge was done as the very first thing before the beginning of setting a bevel. It's purpose was to make it easier for a beginner to realize when he had created a relatively sharp edge.

Joining or jointing the edge started being discussed when a side honing video was created. I think JimmyHAD was the first one that I recall describing it. The side honing was the primary difference in technique but it also described joining or jointing the edge in order to make a straighter edge, either by removing a burr or small chips in the edge. Later JimR's translation of Iwasaki's honing treatise was made available. Many interpreted (incorrectly in my opinion) Iwasaki's final finishing step as a description of joining/jointing. That caused an increased propagation of the method as a means of correcting flaws in the blade created during the honing process.

In summary, joining/jointing was done to remove minor defects, such as burrs or chips, in the edge that occur during honing in order to produce a cleaner edge.

My understandings come from the same background. I thought Bart was crazy when I first read that but now I understand. At that time, I had not heard all of the variables that folks encounter with 'new to them' razors.

Overhoning was never an issue for me as I didn't backhone at that time.

Great site we have here!