Thread: Honing made simple

Like most people who get interested in honing I like to have a clear picture in my head as to what is actually going on and as to what the variables are.

It seems to be pretty simple however. I could experiment but more than likely what I'd find out is what I already think I know.

The goal of most of us is just to have a good shaving blade and that is one that is sharp and not so harsh.

These seem to be the variables and steps. Set the bevel and make sure it can cut hair all along the blade (toe, belly, heel).

Go to the 4k and remove the 1k scratches.

Go to the 8k and remove the 4k scratches.

To this point that's about all you can do to affect the end result.

Go to the 12k and polish what you have brought to the 12k. If your finisher is the Chinese hone then you could do extensive tests to see if it is doing anything, what it's like to shave directly off it, etc.

But more than likely if it seems like it's a finer stone than the 8k you are probably helping things so why explore further?

Maybe try shaving off an 8k and then the next day shave off the Chinese hone as see if it's a bit sharper.

Go to a pasted strop, plain strop and whatever you get is what your system can produce.

Therefore, you really don't even have to experiment to this degree. Just stay on the 4k and 8k until you are sure that you aren't improving things and go to the Chinese stone (in my case) and go to the pasted strop and then plain leather and if it's a smooth shave...you're done.

There is no more you can do to improve that edge.

You can get other hones, learn other systems, and have a lot of fun but you can't really change the physics of what is going on so you aren't going to materially change the end result.

Another observation People generally aren't crazy in the DE world with Derby blades and like Feather blades. The Feather blades are very sharp and maybe a little "keen". Derby blades aren't so sharp but might be described as "smooth".

I'd just call them "dull" but ...semantics.

In the straight razor world however natural stones tend to result in smooth edges but that's because they are a little dull compared to the crisp edges from synthetic hones.

People say you have to get used to shaving off a coticule because it doesn't seem to shave quite as sharply as you may be used to.

Aren't natural stones just the Derby's of the straight world?

Originally Posted by gcbryan

Aren't natural stones just the Derby's of the straight world?

I do not think that is accurate, the right Jnat can produce an edge very similar to a 20k Suehiro. Synthetics are more consistent than nturals no question about that.

Well, the good edges on SRs are both sharp/keen and smooth and not sharp/keen and harsh. Smooth has little to with a blade being on the dull side.

Bob

I can't help be be left feeling like I am being baited here.
In the base of it all, any hardened steel that you sharpen is in principal, all the same. Create the bevel and polish the bevel. There is no rocket science here. There are many many paths to the perfect shaving edge. If they take you where you want to go then they are all correct.

ill throw another variable out there, the hand that doing the honing. ive had blades honed by my guy that will match any other for smooth and sharp no matter which stone used, synthetic or natural. so ya, it sounds simple and in most cases it is, but I will quote the great honemeister hisself "honing is easy till it aint" Tc

Let's not compare derby blades to natural hones... naturals deserve more respect than that..

Well, yes and no.

So much about shaving and honing and shaving with straight razors is subjective and personal preference.

My father in law used to say the FREE coffee at the bank was the BEST coffee… Ok…

Originally Posted by tcrideshd

ill throw another variable out there, the hand that doing the honing. ive had blades honed by my guy that will match any other for smooth and sharp no matter which stone used, synthetic or natural. so ya, it sounds simple and in most cases it is, but I will quote the great honemeister hisself "honing is easy till it aint" Tc

Yep, you can also add in the stropping variable. If the edge comes out a little crisp like it usually is off a synthetic that can be fixed with a good stropping.

I don't think it's at all fair to say an edge off a natural is more comfortable because it's duller. Every natural that I have polishes finer than my Norton 8k, save for maybe* my coticule. I'm new to coticules, and the only razor I've sharpened with it so far failed the shave test. But in all fairness, I didn't strop that razor and shave with it after the 8K, so it isn't fair to blame the coticule when the razor most likely just wasn't ready for that final stage.

Which brings up another good point. Regardless of what you're finishing with, strop and test shave when you think you're done with the 8k. If it doesn't shave without tugging, there's no point going further.

At any rate, if the edge is showing a finer polish with less or shallower stria, then it stands to reason that the edge is sharper/keener than it was at the 8K level. But I've comfortably shaved directly off my Chinese naturals, Arkansas, and Welsh slates. An edge coming off my Norton 8K or one of my barber hones is at first shave a little too crisp for my liking. But by shave 2-3 it mellows out and becomes just as smooth as you can ask for.

It's rather intriguing to me that every surface seems to have it's own feel to it. Norton 8K, Swaty barber hone, C12K, Translucent Arkansas, Dragon's Tongue, Lynn Melynllynn, Black Welsh slate...same hands doing the honing (mine) with the same honing method/system, but the feel of a razor honed on each stone is fairly distinct. I'll never understand why an edge off a Dragon's Tongue or ZY razor hone is mellow and comfortable right off the stone but an edge off the Norton needs to be on shave 3 before it mellows out. Or why an edge honed on the Lynn Melynllynn (Purple Welsh slate sold by AJ on Ebay) has a bite that will rival the Norton 8K, but if I take it a step further and finish on the black Welsh slate the razor becomes sharper/keener and shaves mellow right off that stone without need of stropping.

Just to clarify why the Welsh slates are particularly perplexing, in terms of fineness from least fine to finest: Norton 8K = Dragon's tongue < LM/Purple slate < Black slate. So you go from an adequately sharp shaving edge on the Dragon's Tongue that's fairly smooth, to a sharper edge that is also somewhat harsh, the progress one step further and it's one of the sharpest edges I can create while also being smooth and comfortable.

Originally Posted by Euclid440

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My father in law used to say the FREE coffee at the bank was the BEST coffee… Ok…

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Yep, honing is simple, sometimes! You either get it, or not, sometimes. A work in progress, always. Sometimes, better than others!


Mike