Thread: My first try at setting the bevel

Story behind this SR:
BeeJay honed me two razors and gave me one to try out myself.

Some pics of the work done:

1) Unpinning failing as usual. This is the only picture I have where you can see how the blade was:


BJ said:

Sometimes you can fix celluloid with acetone.
Acetone will actually melt celluloid. The idea is to use as little as possible so that the scales don't fully melt. Clean the area very well and put just a bit of acetone on either side of the crack with a Qtip. When the celluloid starts to soften, hold both pieces together and they will eventually harden as one piece.
It's a very strong repair if you get it right. The trick is to use the right amount of acetone.

I decided to leave that work for later.

2) Evaporust
I started using this product on every SR which has some rust on it.
Here's after 4-5hs:


The blade looks dark, but it goes away with some sanding

3) After 180-400-600 Sanding:


4) I taped the blade and this is what they look before:



5) After some X strokes




I doubt you can say much about the pictures but I would like to ask some general questions:

1) At the beginning, the toe and the heel were not getting a bevel at all. I guess that's my X stroke technique fault. The last strokes I put some pressure on the toe and on the heel and it got a bit better. Is that ok?

2) Does the "height" of the bevel matter? I noticed that the one I did is thinner than most of the SR pro honed I have. I was going to keep going but decided to stop and ask first.

3) The bevel I have is already shaving hair from my arm. Is that enough to stop?

4) I need to get a zoom/magnifying glass. Any recommendation?

5) What do you think it should be my next step? My stones are: 200/1k Norton, 4k/8k Norton, 12k Naniwa


Thanks for reading!

1 - Pressure is OK at bevel set. You kind of need it to abrade more steel early on anyway. Make sure you slowly ease up on pressure, so that your final strokes are like finishing strokes. This will make the stria less shallow, and easier to remove on the next hone in the progression.

2 - If by height, you mean from the shoulder of the bevel to the extreme edge/end - no. How high this is depends on 2 things, angle of honing and thickness of the blade. Thinner grinds will have a shorter bevel.

3 - might be, might not be. Best way I've found to tell is to hold the razor sharp edge up and look straight down at it with magnification. When you can no longer see where the bevels meet because it's that thin, then you're done setting the bevel.

5 - if you're done with the 1k, then it'll be time to move on to the 4k. Stay there until the blade stops improving then move on to the 8. Same thing here, but before moving on to the 12K, strop and shave. You should be able to get a comfortable shave off the 8K. If that edge doesn't shave, reassess the edge and drop back. Probably to the 1K because more than likely it'll be a bevel not quite fully set issue.

As far as magnification here's the most common recommendations:

https://www.amazon.com/HTS-201X3-Whi...lers+loupe+30x

https://www.amazon.com/KINGMAS-Pocke...jewelers+loupe

https://www.amazon.com/Carson-60X-10...jewelers+loupe

I've got a 30x and a carson 60-100x, but I find myself using the fixed 30x more these days. It's just faster and easier to pull things into focus.

I've been in contact with the OP from before this was posted via email.

I'm interested in what others have to say. I think for just beginning with cleaning up razors he's doing alright.

I would digress or question this:

2 - If by height, you mean from the shoulder of the bevel to the extreme edge/end - no. How high this is depends on 2 things, angle of honing and thickness of the blade. Thinner grinds will have a shorter bevel.

As I just honed a 8/8+ quarter grind W&B that took a nice and even edge about 1/32" wide with only one layer of tape on the spine.

I've honed 5/8 razors that took a lot wider edge. I believe that it depends more on how the razor was ground.

My Great Grandfather's 5/8+ bevel looks like a snakes track/wide in places and narrow in others. OH! Don't try to tell me that it's 'MY' honing as Glen gets the same results!

But that's just my thoughts.

When referencing thickness, I don't mean spine to edge, I mean from one side of the blade to the other. Or the grind, as you put it Cuda. A wedge for example, will have a taller bevel than a quarter hollow, and so on down the line.

But how tall the bevel is, or whether it's perfectly uniform all the way down or 'snake tracks' won't effect the shave if honed adequately sharp to perform the task at hand. I'm assuming your great grandfather's razor shaves fine?

Originally Posted by Marshal

When referencing thickness, I don't mean spine to edge, I mean from one side of the blade to the other. Or the grind, as you put it Cuda. A wedge for example, will have a taller bevel than a quarter hollow, and so on down the line.

But how tall the bevel is, or whether it's perfectly uniform all the way down or 'snake tracks' won't effect the shave if honed adequately sharp to perform the task at hand. I'm assuming your great grandfather's razor shaves fine?

I believe that we may be talking apples and oranges here.

When I comment on the 'width' of a bevel I'm referring to how wide it is from the edge toward the spine.

Now I will fully disagree with your presumption that the width of the edge will vary due to as you said

Originally Posted by Marshal

A wedge for example, will have a taller bevel than a quarter hollow, and so on down the line.

Here's pictures of three different razors to show what I refer to as the 'width' of the bevel. They are all very narrow.

Please tell me which razor is what size and what grind.

I stand corrected. The grind in terms of half/quarter/full hollow is less important because they all get fairly thin toward cutting edge.

At least not until they're worn down to the spot the blade begins to get wider. I have 2 that fit that description, and now that the hone is having to chew through thicker metal to form the cutting edge the bevel is nearly as thick as my wedge - which has the most monstrous bevel I've seen to date, and it isn't even fully set yet. Still a work in progress.

1) At the beginning, the toe and the heel were not getting a bevel at all. I guess that's my X stroke technique fault. The last strokes I put some pressure on the toe and on the heel and it got a bit better. Is that ok?

2) Does the "height" of the bevel matter? I noticed that the one I did is thinner than most of the SR pro honed I have. I was going to keep going but decided to stop and ask first.

3) The bevel I have is already shaving hair from my arm. Is that enough to stop?

4) I need to get a zoom/magnifying glass. Any recommendation?

5) What do you think it should be my next step? My stones are: 200/1k Norton, 4k/8k Norton, 12k Naniwa



1. No, there are times when you might add some pressure, but the razor has a smiling edge and needs a rolling, X stroke. Photo’s 4 & 5, shows the edge is not flat on the stone, because of the slight smile.

Ink the bevel and perfect your rolling X stroke, until you are consistently removing ink. You want to look at the edge with magnification to ensure you are honing to the edge, and that the bevels are meeting fully, from heel to toe.

Look straight down on the edge, if you see shinny reflections, the bevel is not fully set.

Here is a great video of the subtitles of the Rolling X. by Charlie Lewis, (Honing a Smiling Blade). Study that video and note, how little he lifts the blade.

You can add some pressure or torque to get the heel or toe but more pressure is not the answer for a smiling blade.

2. No. The width of the blade and thickness of the spine will dictate the Bevel angle and width of the bevel. You can adjust the bevel width somewhat with tape, but it is pretty much dictated by the razor an it’s condition. An excessively worn spine will have a wider bevel than the same razor without wear.


3. No. The bevel does not look fully set, especially at the toe and heel.
Look straight down on the edge, with magnification.


4. There is a good recent thread on magnifiers. You can get a good 60X lighted loupe for as little as $2. The 3 listed in post 2 are good.


5. Get magnification, you have a good progression. Get with a local mentor to get some hands-on training and master your stones. Do not use the 220 stone.

It is much easier to hone a razor with scales, and you will probably bugger the edge, when you apply the new scales.

To the OP, if you're so inclined, you can easily measure the bevel angle. Search Google for the bevel angle calculator, it's an excel sheet with a formula. The width won't matter, as long as you're hitting the right angle zone.

Ink the bevel, as Euclid suggested, that will help you a lot.

Magnification... yes, you can get a cheap magnifier and it will help some. They are junk though. Ever since I got a 10x Bausch&Lomb loupe, with no lighting or anything, I never reach for anything else. It costs more, but it's well worth the price. Note that those numbers advertised on cheap magnifiers (30x, 60x etc..) are a lie. 10x B&L will tell you everything. The next thing you might want after that is a $500 microscope.

[QUOTE=cmsessa;1700920]Story behind this SR:
BeeJay honed me two razors and gave me one to try out myself.

Some pics of the work done:
1) Unpinning failing as usual. This is the only picture I have where you can see how the blade was:

Hello cmessa
Good information regarding bevel setting has been given, this is directed at pin removal. If you do not already use one you may want to invest in a Jeweler’s Anvil or Watchmakers Anvil (Google it). Lay the pin on top of the correct size hole when tapping out. Go with light taps. Many have cracked scales before so be glad they were not ivory. Hope this may help some.
MIke

Yes, regarding the unpinning, supporting the scales with something like a Jewelers anvil is good advice, but do not drive the pin all the way, through the scales. Cut or drill the head off one side of the pin, then lift the scale off the pin gently.

If you try to drive it through both scales and the pin is bent, just slightly or has a burr you will blow out the tip of the scale.

That type/style of scale is notorious for off gassing and can become very brittle, that may be the cause of the blade turning black and rusted in photo 1, where it would have sat in the scales.

You might also have trouble with it holding an edge, cell rot attacks the thinnest steel first, the edge. If you experience chipping you will have to remove metal, until you reach solid steel.

It does appear to have cleaned up nicely.