Thread: Perfect edge on Naniwa and suehiro 20k for noobs

Hi all. I wrote up how I get a great edge off my jnat for those looking into getting into jnats. But to be honest I have been using my suehiro 20k as a finisher and I really can't beat this edge. So for those starting out I want to share my way of getting that perfect edge and save noobs months of trial and error. I may do a video as well and if I do I will be sure to post it. This is the way I do my edges and I hit 99 percent of the time. With a jnat I only hit about 80-85% of the time. It is more fun honing on a jnat to finish but fun isn't always functional. The suehiro honing lasts literally 12 laps worth of time and I get a perfect edge every time. More payoff for the time spent is better in my eyes.

The short version: The stones I use are naniwa super stones. The 1k is the naniwa chosera/professional. 1k 3k 5k 8k and the 12k. I then strop up the blade 50 linen and then 100 leather. This prepares the edge for the crappy feedback of the suehiro and do just 12 weight of the blade laps on the suehiro. Then I strop up 50 linen and 100 leather again. Stropping before the finishing hone prepares that blade to have the absolute last work done on the edge and the blade will travel down the suehiro smoothly and easily. Normally the suehiro stone unless your blade is honed PERFECTLY up to this point can have some lousy feed back and many I think don't "get" this stone and end up selling it when it's the best stone ever made .

Now the details:

I first max out my naniwa progression as follows:

I add one layer of super 88 3m tape to the spine. I very lightly joint the edge once maybe twice on the chosera 1k. (If I need to set the bevel.). I Change the tape after the cutting/sharpening stage 5k and the polishing stage 12k and final taping is the 20k. I take the tape off to strop the blade.

If I need to set the bevel: I do 40 circles weight of the blade and slight pressure up and down the stone. Spray more water and clear the swarf off of stone with my fingers. (The naniwa will cut very well if you constantly clean the swarf off) Followed by x strokes with slight pressure ending with weight of the blade pressure until the feedback is like glass pretty much. I go mostly by feel and I look for cutting the water well with the blade. When the bevel is evening out the water will travel up the blade but this is secondary to how the blade "feels." Go by feel and don't count strokes because every blade will
Be different.
At this point I will test the bevel by seeing if it will effortlessly cut arm hair dry against the grain. If you don't have arm hair then get a cherry tomato and the blade should effortlessly cut into that tomato at all parts of the blade. After testing I will do 5 to 10 perfect weight of blade laps. Total time is whenever the bevel is set. Do not leave this stone until that blade effortlessly cuts arm hair. It should take 5 to 10 minutes typically but can take 30 if you use any pressure jointing the edge. Jointing is not necessary but you will feel defects along the blade come out this way. Remember this is the most important step setting the bevel is everything.

Naniwa super stones.

For the rest of the stones I use only weight of the blade. This will get at the cutting edge and you are less likely to f up the edge. Also this takes the variable out of what is pressure. Keep it simple and repeatable if you want to enjoy this hobby!

I do 40 circles again up and down focusing on hitting the toe and heel making sure to get all the blade. Again I clean the swarf off and do x strokes periodically cleaning the swarf off once or twice until the blade feels like it is skipping on glass and it undercuts the water well. After cleaning off swarf the blade will often will not undercut water but you will feel the stone cut the blade better again. This is the efficiency of the stone temporarily coming back which is what gives you that awesome edge. The circles speed honing up. Once the blade undercuts the water for the last time and it feels like skipping on glass the blade is done on the stone. This can take 30-60 or more strokes. You can't ruin the blade with too much strokes on the naniwa. But the suehiro you CAN. Your face will take two shaves or so to get used to the keenness if you couldn't produce such a good edge before.

To test the blade: if you need to after 8k the blade should grab arm hair half way and cut VERY WELL. It should really grab here against the grain. If the blade pushes the hair you messed up or didn't spend enough time on previous stones or it can take more laps with the 8k. I test HHT at the 12k it should pass if you care about the test. My wife's hair is pretty thick and it passes 3-4 here.

So after the 12k the blade should pass the HHT of 3-4 without stropping. I would recommend stropping the razor up and shaving here. This will be sure to prove you are maxing out the naniwa. This edge when done correctly will satisfy 97% of the people out there. If you must shave every day and you sport a shadow at the end of the day you will want the suehiro. But you will get an incredible shave off the 12k. The suehiro improves this edge but only by like 5-10 percent. If you can get away with shaving every other day the naniwa will be enough. If you are one of those poor chaps that doesn't grow much hair you could prob shave off the 8k.

Now after you are satisfied you maxed out the naniwa stones and you think "how does it get better than this 12k? and did I waste money on my suehiro or jnat?" Do some refresh strokes if you shaved on the 12k and strop up the blade as described above. If you didn't shave test the 12k strop after honing on the 12k as mentioned above anyways. Now you are ready to take the blade to the next level.

Wet the suehiro and focus on weight of the blade laps no more than 15. Do NOT worry about under cutting the water here. I count laps and violate my rule because you can screw up the edge and make it harsh that won't lighten up with stropping. I find on my hollow blades it will start to feel like glass at about 12 laps. Really ten but I clean the swarf and end with two PERFECT weight of the blade laps. Strop this blade up as above and get ready to enjoy probably the smoothest shave of your life. You will consider selling your jnat like me after this .

To maintain edge do 10 linen 25 leather post shave and 40 linen and 60 leather pre shave and the blade may actually get smoother if you can believe it.

A note on stropping. Do not put any pressure! Just the weight of the blade and pull the strop taught no slack. It should feel like almost nothing is there if that blade is perfect. At about 60 leather you will feel the blade slick up even more that's when it's done. After honing do another 40 on the leather for 100 and the strop will lose most feedback. I use a SRD Latigo with upgraded linen.
I hope this helps the noobs out there. Thanks for reading.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Originally Posted by TJB

A note on stropping. Do not put any pressure! Just the weight of the blade and pull the strop taught no slack. It should feel like almost nothing is there if that blade is perfect. At about 60 leather you will feel the blade slick up even more that's when it's done. After honing do another 40 on the leather for 100 and the strop will lose most feedback. I use a SRD Latigo with upgraded linen.
I hope this helps the noobs out there. Thanks for reading.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Interesting..... I've been thinking about one of those Suehiro hones and you are NOT making it easier for me to resist!

As for your stropping instructions, I tend to do the same... tight strop and very light on the blade. However, from the "Some say tomato and some say tomato" department, here's a posting I made some time ago showing Liam Finnegan stropping his straight before shaving a customer. His technique apparently works for him, and it goes a long way to explain my dad's last barber strop (it feels more like soft rubber than leather). Watch the video for your "amusement only" and don't try it at home! Though if you do, and it works for you..... tell us about it!

http://straightrazorpalace.com/strop...ml#post1654674

Regards

Christian

The 20K is a hard stone to beat, it just works and does it's job better than most.

Originally Posted by kaptain_zero

Interesting..... I've been thinking about one of those Suehiro hones and you are NOT making it easier for me to resist!

As for your stropping instructions, I tend to do the same... tight strop and very light on the blade. However, from the "Some say tomato and some say tomato" department, here's a posting I made some time ago showing Liam Finnegan stropping his straight before shaving a customer. His technique apparently works for him, and it goes a long way to explain my dad's last barber strop (it feels more like soft rubber than leather). Watch the video for your "amusement only" and don't try it at home! Though if you do, and it works for you..... tell us about it!

http://straightrazorpalace.com/strop...ml#post1654674

Regards

Christian

Poetry in motion. I move about half as fast as he does on a good day. Maybe one day I'll get that technique down...

I couldn't get the video to work even in YouTube. But from what I could gather from the comments it's fast stropping.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

He holds the strop fairly loose, and whips the blade across it with the kind of speed you'll probably only acquire stropping 6 times or more a day for years. It's always impressive watching a master ply his craft.

I guess that would work fine but he's catching more than the cutting edge. My aim is to just modify the cutting edge without messing it up. My posts are geared towards people just starting out in the hobby. So I eliminate as many variables as possible. Wish I could have seen the vid though


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Originally Posted by kaptain_zero

Interesting..... I've been thinking about one of those Suehiro hones and you are NOT making it easier for me to resist!

As for your stropping instructions, I tend to do the same... tight strop and very light on the blade. However, from the "Some say tomato and some say tomato" department, here's a posting I made some time ago showing Liam Finnegan stropping his straight before shaving a customer. His technique apparently works for him, and it goes a long way to explain my dad's last barber strop (it feels more like soft rubber than leather). Watch the video for your "amusement only" and don't try it at home! Though if you do, and it works for you..... tell us about it!

http://straightrazorpalace.com/strop...ml#post1654674

Regards

Christian

Just get the hone man. The blade will literally suck the hair into it during the HHT and be 5 easy it will just fall apart. The shave will be so smooth like a butter knife almost against the grain. Also it's so fast and repeatable it stops HAD and will make the hobby even more fun.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Originally Posted by TJB

I couldn't get the video to work even in YouTube. But from what I could gather from the comments it's fast stropping.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

He not only strops fast, but his strop is scary slack! I remember having trouble watching it before... there's some sort of lockout on it depending on where you try to watch from I think.
I'm going to say by the looks of things, the strop droops about 2 inches (5cm) in the middle during stropping and it flops around a fair bit. Pity you can't see the video.. it's worth it, just for the chills down the spine!

Now, as to why you can't see it.... perhaps you are using an Apple computer or some such or have flash blocked? It's an old video and I don't know if it has been converted to html5.

From experience I've found that a taught or slack strop shouldn't make a difference .
I'm now in the slack camp.
The problems come from the turn.

I might buy the 20k one day but all 20k's are the same, where as my Nakayama is the best one on earth