Thread: Honing...aka Hypertension

Well I've got a W&B looks to be a 6/8 I got off Ebay for $10 and a Engels "Wedge" that came in an Ebay lot (figure it to be 4/8).

Broke out the Nani 1k and Norton 4/8K after spending a little time sanding on them to get rid of some rust spots (both razors showed some minor spotting, but the steel was in really good shape).

The W&B had a warped spine and the blade was differently missing more steel on the heel. Drove me nuts trying to get the bevel set with the warp. Finally I put way more torque and pressure than I ever thought would be prudent (I'm calling it a 1/4 hollow) and BAM got the bevel set. Ran up my progression with the 4/8k, CRoX strop (thx Marty), and then reg stropping. Got a pretty darn good shave off it today.

Then Engles is more what I figure a "near" wedge to be. But gotta take that for what's its' worth...never held a wedge. Same problem with it just not as bad as the W&B. A very slight warp that took more finesse. Seemed quite easy to "over" torque the smaller blade. I eventually got it (almost had to put the thing down and walk away). Really concentrated on putting a little more downward pressure on the heel to maintain contact while putting just enough torque to maintain solid contact over the entire blade (hope that makes sense).

Glen's 3 part vid on a wedge was helpful and I'm glad I found it before I attempted to hone the Engels. I was actually relieved to find that hone wear wasn't too bad and I didn't have "multiple" bevels. But curse Glen for making it look SO EASY in the vids.
I'll try the Engels tomorrow or next weekend if I can't bring myself to wake up early enough to SR shave.

Big thanks to Marty for my intro to honing back when I started using a SR. He's given me a good foundation to work with and allow me to add too via the internet and practice.

I'm also starting to get a better grasp on torque and pressure. THANK YOU Glen...think it was a thread that turned into another "tape vs no tape" thread that Glen popped in on. Basically he wrote something to the effect "tape vs no tape has been beat to death". Never met Glen, but I'm pretty sure he was just a little frustrated that the subject had yet again been turned into a thread :banged: I've only been at this for about a year and been on the forum the same length of time and I cringe every time I see a "to tape or not to tape" thread. Anyway, he wrote a very short sentence to the effect that it's a moot point with new honers who don't even grasp the concept of torque (paraphrasing there). That one little blurp about torque started me down a road of analyzing vid's and my own hone stroke in relation to torque. IT WAS A BIG MOMENT.

I'm not completely happy with my honing yet, but I can get a pretty comfortable shave just off the 4k/8k, and I'm learning more and more each session (especially fed back). I've got one spot about 1/3 way down from the toe that I end up with a little bigger bevel than the rest of the edge...can't figure out what I'm doing. It happens with every blade. I've got one razor that I've tried to hone 5 times and I've put it down and walked away 5 times. Eventually, I WILL PERSEVERE!

Anyway cheers,
Jer

Jer, watch the pressure, torque or downward pressure with hollow ground razors. Too much can lift the edge off the stone and you hone the back of the bevel, not the edge. You need just enough pressure to keep the bevel flat on the stone.

When trying to analyze technique, Ink is your friend. Keep inking the bevels and adjusting your technique, the ink will tell you if you are going in the right direction.

Ink, do a couple laps, look at your bevels, ink again and repeat. Don’t forget to look at BOTH sides.

Also, before you start, inspect the razor, this can save you some hair. Lay it on the stone, both sides. Is it flat? if not (usually), how much out of flat? That will determine how much “Rolling” you need for your X stroke.

Is the hone wear even on the spine, and is there excessive hone wear on one spot? If so find out why.

Look at the tip, does it look like the rest of the bevel, in other words, was it honed. Most of the razors I hone the tips are rarely finished honed, usually muted or curved. Again, the rolling X is your friend.

Lastly look at the heel. Does the heel, corner go past the stabilizer, if it has one. Is the heel properly shaped, and was it honed? Does the bevel taper off near the heel? Why?

Are there, wear marks on the stabilizers and or tang? If so, it is keeping the heel half of the razor off the stone, most probably the heel needs re-shaping. It is surprisingly a common problem.

What you see will tell you how the razor will need to be honed, for example you cannot hone a smiling edge razor with straight strokes.

Also, watch your strokes, a good technique is to use a combination of strokes, circles, straight and X, rolling if needed. Straight strokes will hone more in the middle.

X strokes will smooth and blend a bevel and get the heel and toe, the usual suspects of problem areas. It should be your finishing strokes. A proper X stroke will naturally shift the pressure from the heel to the toe as it slides across the stone in an arc.

And remember to lighten up on pressure/torque the higher up you go in the progression. The pressure you use at 1k is not the same as 12k, it is not needed on the finish stones.

So the razor will dictate what technique you need, your technique and ability to “read” the razor and progress, dictates the quality of the edge.

The sharpie was my friend yesterday. Even going through the progression I was worried about the W&B. I think I inked it 2-3 times on each stone to make sure there was even contact. I put some rolling X's in because the toe had an every so slight smile at the very tip (last 2-3 mm) I'm sure Marty, glen, lynn, or some of you other guys would have nailed it from the get go, but time learning is time well spent in my book.

Marty...every time I'm honing I hear two voices in my head. You're on one shoulder from the meet in your garage and Glen's on the other from his vids. I think my biggest problem at your place was like you mentioned (both that day and above) to much pressure. Plus, it was all downward pressure vs using some torque

Thanks for the words of wisdom...bookmarking this thread for future reference...Thanks Marty!!!

Jer