Thread: Tape Honing and "Sticktion"

Hi all,

Last night i made my first attempt at honing with tape. I used a single piece of .007" duck brand electrical tape. Althought i did manage to get a decent edge, i wasn't able to get the usual 'sticktion' i get on my coticule. Is this something that the tape prevents? Do I need to change my honing slightly when working with tape? Also, are there any cardinal rules of honing with tape I should be aware of before I use it on any other razors?

I am only using tape on my vintage razors because I would like to avoid spine hone wear.

Thanks in advance!

Matt

If this is the first time using tape on this razor, the bevel may not have ground completely flat, due to the increased bevel angle from the use of tape. Also depending on your use of pressure and tape wear, that angle may be changing from the tape wear. The angle will be constantly changing with wear, microscopically.

I have been using clear packing tape and it wears very well and is also thinner than electrical tape. Great for a Nano, Micro bevel.

Ink the bevel and see if the bevel is completely flat with the tape on the spine. It is that flatness of the bevel, that causes the stiction.

Matt,

Nothing different that I am aware of other than having to reset the bevel with tape over not using tape, I noramlly don't hone with tape unless it's a worked spine or has gold wash or the person I am honing for requests it be done, the "stiction" you are referring to is still there but the feedback to you is alot different using tape so you will have to basically retrain your feel for it with tape, some guys hone with tape all the time and have that feedback down but guys like me that jump back and fourth have to re-adjust our feel for when it's time to move on to the next stone.

As far as rules there really is not much to adhere to other than ensure the tape is even and flat with no bubbles and change as needed especially if you spend a fair amount of time on the 1K, I personally change after the 1K and then after my 4/8K mid range and then one final time before using my final finisher, using tape does change the bevel angle slightly but honestly not enough to make a difference but I have tested some honing with not using tape and then right at final finish using one layer and do a micro bevel and it's worked out well in most cases.

Originally Posted by Euclid440

If this is the first time using tape on this razor, the bevel may not have ground completely flat, due to the increased bevel angle from the use of tape. Also depending on your use of pressure and tape wear, that angle may be changing from the tape wear. The angle will be constantly changing with wear, microscopically.

I have been using clear packing tape and it wears very well and is also thinner than electrical tape. Great for a Nano, Micro bevel.

Ink the bevel and see if the bevel is completely flat with the tape on the spine. It is that flatness of the bevel, that causes the stiction.

I did notice that when using my loupe, i was getting a much finer polish at the very top of the bevel, and not as much the closer to the spine the bevel went. I started using the tape because i sent some razors for professional honing and I know they use tape. I was under the impression that I would need to use tape to do touch-ups on those razors in the future to maintain the same bevel angle.

Regarding the flatness of the bevel, after the 1K I thought I had a uniform scratch pattern along the entire length and width of the bevel. Maybe I have to go above and beyond during the bevel set when moving from no-tape to tape on a razor.

Taping a razor that was honed without, you don't have to do anything special, in fact it is easier

The other way around don't fall for the myths that abound on here and the internet..

It takes MINIMAL laps to change that tiny little angle difference even less if you have been shaving with the razor

Just hone as normal

The "Sticktion" is the matching of the honewear on the spine to the honewear on the bevel to the hone..

The more flat smooth surfaces that come together the stickier it gets nothing more nothing less

Originally Posted by Matt1222

I did notice that when using my loupe, i was getting a much finer polish at the very top of the bevel, and not as much the closer to the spine the bevel went.

Yes that is correct and what is often called a Micro Bevel this is a good thing,, If you keep honing with tape that bevel will become the over all bevel you DO NOT have to push it..


I started using the tape because i sent some razors for professional honing and I know they use tape. I was under the impression that I would need to use tape to do touch-ups on those razors in the future to maintain the same bevel angle.

Nope Do it either way you want 1 layer of tape is not worth the worry



Regarding the flatness of the bevel, after the 1K I thought I had a uniform scratch pattern along the entire length and width of the bevel. Maybe I have to go above and beyond during the bevel set when moving from no-tape to tape on a razor.


Nope Just let them settle in don't push the change over, you don't have too, that Microp bevel will shave just fine, and as you hone more the tape bevel will take over

So much mis-information about taping abounds on the forums ***SMH***

Did you use tape on the 1k?

If not and you are using tape on the finisher, you will be polishing only the leading ¼ to ½ of the bevel, depending on how many laps and how much pressure you are using, though that is not a bad thing.

Ink, especially colored ink will quickly tell you.

Yes if razor was finish honed with tape, you will have to use tape to touch up on a finish hone, or use enough laps to re-set the bevel. It will depend on the stone and your technique, how many laps it will take to reset the angle. Some like a 12k super stone are aggressive and can re-set a bevel completely in a few laps.

As an example of technique, take the same razor with or without tape, ink the bevel and hone the razor with spine leading (stropping strokes). You will see that you are polishing only the edge of the bevel and not the whole bevel. If you continue you will eventually polish all, of the bevel.

Of course, pressure play a big part here.

Colored ink is much easier to see, I use red sharpie ink.

After playing with 6 coticules and dozen or so blades with tape, I have never gotten "appreciable" stiction. You just have tp rely on the knowledge of your stone and a loupe to get to the same edge readiness

WAIT ! Isn't all ink colored ? "Ink, especially colored ink" will quickly tell you.

Originally Posted by Euclid440

Did you use tape on the 1k?

Yea, I used tape the whole way through. I did get a pretty keen edge when all was said and done. It passed a HHT 3-4 all along the blade. I just need to give it a shave to see how I ultimately did. I mainly was concerned just because I do usually get some amount of sticky feedback from my coticule. Yesterday I was doing a progression going from 1K, to the coticule, then to a dark blue Escher. The stick on the coticule lets me know the edge is in good enough shape for the Escher to be worth using. I have seen, and from my limited experience noticed, that Eschers really work best on shave-ready, or almost shave ready edges.

Originally Posted by nodakjohns

WAIT ! Isn't all ink colored ? "Ink, especially colored ink" will quickly tell you.

I could sell you some clear ink, but I have to warn you, it's quite pricey!

On the bright side though, it can be diluted with water and that will make it more economical.