Thread: Hone Movement - Handholding etc.

Gentlemen,

I've been watching the video of Ryoichi Mizuochi (Iwasaki) honing a kamisori on YouTube, and see that when he hones, the hone moves because it's sitting on at least a couple of layers of a folded towel. I've long done this myself in various ways; the way I usually use is a half-folded bar towel with the hone, stone holder, or rubber block sitting astride the fold. This does two things, one it compensates for my slightly off-level table and irregular stones, and it allows the hone to move with honing pressure, much like hand holding a stone.

Livi seems to accomplish the same thing by honing hand held with a full size stone, holding the stone by one end which I find rather interesting and I haven't tried it. But you can of course see the hone move during honing. It would be impossible to hold the stone rigidly the way he does it so I feel that what he's doing is on intentional. I also note that he does not attempt to use anywhere near the full length of the stone but that's a topic for another thread and something I also do.

What most people do I think is simply sit the hone flat on one hand which allows the stone to move, and this can cure a multitude of sins when you're learning to finish a razor. Hand holding doesn't work as well with large, heavy stones though.

So how many folks have thought about allowing the hone to move a little - even on a bench - to adapt to pressure and what method do you use?

Cheers, Steve

Have too really look, it might be in the archives, but sometime around 2007 or so I wrote this up, will see if I can find it...
But yes it works and has worked for me for over 10 years

Thank you sir!

Cheers, Steve

Steve,

I have a Shinden Asagi that has an uneven bottom and when it sits in the holder it sits unevenly so i tried hand holding it and for me at least the end result was less than acceptable, it may be because I learned to hone with stones sitting flat, i pretty much do the same as you with the Shinden as my other finisher lay pretty flat and even and keep the slurry from pooling off. i do have a small LV Coti that I hand hold for just quick touch up's

I don't think any form of hand holding really allows you to get the stone firmly in place. Whether you're holding a large hone like Livi or using a small barber hone sitting in the palm of your hand it's liable to rock/shift a bit. When I was learning to finish a razor, I would balance a stone in my palm such that if I put more than weight of the razor across the far end it would shift. The end goal of course being to use such little pressure that the hone doesn't move and acclimate yourself to that.

As for intentionally allowing the stone to move? For me not so much. I prefer they be as steady and stable as I can make them. When I'm hand honing with a small stone like my Shoubudani or a barber hone, I anchor my elbow to a solid surface and try to hold as still as possible. My larger stones go in a plastic holder with rubber feet, and the honing table is held as steady as one can hold an old TV tray while honing. Maybe one day I'll upgrade to a proper stable platform.

Not that I don't see value in it. Just personal preference, I'd rather the stone stay still.

Apart from a 5x20 cm coticule, I have only ever used stones that were small enough to comfortably be used in hand.

I started with honing on a flat, non-slip surface, but found I really enjoyed and maybe needed the added control of hand held honing.

When honing with the stone in hand, you get to manipulate both the blade and the stone.

Also, I found it easier to control the blade pressure with one hand as opposed to two.

I'm not sure I'd want the stone to move without me being able to directly manipulate it.

When I started out I mainly used Barber Hones and one of the things I didn't like about hand holding them was the mvmt. It seemed bad enough learning to control the razor without having to worry about two moving surfaces simultaneously.

I've gotten used to the hone being planted rock solid these days and you can't teach an old dog new tricks.

Besides, who wants to hold hands with a hone?

Except for bevel setting on my 1k, I hand hold all my stones when honing, both my 4x2 travel stones and my larger 8x3 stones. Here's a video from Jende Industries that was influential to me early re: hand holding stones.


https://youtu.be/flHY_f0cpgs

I've only hand held my 5x2 1/2 coticules or 6x2 eschers and I don't find it difficult. As noted above, you're getting tactile feedback with both hands and figuring pressure and what not is easy AFAIC. OTOH, the majority of my honing is done with the stone on the counter rock solid, but that is mainly because they are 8" stones.

Interesting, a couple things about his technique, when you do an X stroke you do not need to go from corner to corner, because half of the blade is off the stone during the whole stroke.

Start with the toe in the upper corner, or with the heel in the middle of the stone and toe off the upper corner, curve the stroke, ending the stroke with the tip of the toe, in the middle of the stone on the other end.

If you compare the mileage, (time on the stone) of the heel, to the toe, the toe never leaves the stone, the heel, falls off the stone before less than, a quarter to half inch of lateral travel. It almost gets no time on the hone. He is really just honing the top half of the razor, the whole bottom half of the razor is not on the stone much, at all.

If you do a heel forward X stroke, keep the heel on the stone at least until half to three quarters of the way across the stone, again ending with the toe in the middle of the stone, with a sweeping curve stroke.

Way too many stones.

I don’t hand hold, and hone all stones on the bench, small stones on another full-size stone in the holder with a piece of drawer liner or thin Yoga mat between the stone. I shim uneven stones with small pieces of yoga mat.