Thread: Advice/Suggestions Needed--Losing Bevel After Initial Setting

I've got a razor really giving me fits. It's a near full-hollow ground W&B (sorry, I don't have any pictures). Just a very basic, 6/8 spike point straight edge (no smile or major geometry issues). Very thin grind though.

Anyway, I can get a bevel set on a Chosera 1K using circles and then finishing up with x-strokes. Everything is good: even water displacement, undercutting across the entire blade, thumbpad test feels sticky the whole way across, and popping arm hair. Things look good under my loupe

Then, I move onto the next stone, 5K Naniwa SS (I don't have the 3K--so the 5K is all I've got to work with) and I almost immediately start losing the bevel with just about 10 x-strokes on the 5K. The stickiness is gone from the thumbpad test and its not popping hair. Can't really discern anything with my loupe, and water displacement and undercutting are still good, but the bevel edge from the 1K seems to be gone in just a matter of a few strokes.

Has anybody experienced this? Ideas on what the problem might be? Too much pressure? Not enough pressure? Do I need to try another stroke? Skip the 5k and go straight to the 8K and just stay on that stone for a long time?

I think this one is just going to require a lot of patience and experimentation, so the more suggestions you have the better. Thanks!

Originally Posted by jseitz

Has anybody experienced this? Ideas on what the problem might be? Too much pressure?

How much pressure are you using? I use pretty much just the weight of my blade and fingers after the initial bevel set.

Do you have this issue with only this specific razor, or others as well?

Hmm, popping hair, I was never able to do this.

If you fully know the bevel is set, I'd just go through the Naniwa progression as usual and only test after a 12k or something, see how that turns out

With the Naniwas I make sure I don't run dry and don't use a lot of pressure, I also lightly clean their surface every once in a while

Sounds a little odd indeed, usually my 5k does a very good job refining the bevel

Originally Posted by Butzy

How much pressure are you using? I use pretty much just the weight of my blade and fingers after the initial bevel set.

Do you have this issue with only this specific razor, or others as well?

I'm using some pressure, but not a lot (not more than I usually use). I've not had this problem with other razors. I can typically feel the edge get more and more sticky as a progress along. I'll try an even lighter, feathery touch though. Thanks!

Originally Posted by TristanLudlow

Hmm, popping hair, I was never able to do this.

If you fully know the bevel is set, I'd just go through the Naniwa progression as usual and only test after a 12k or something, see how that turns out

With the Naniwas I make sure I don't run dry and don't use a lot of pressure, I also lightly clean their surface every once in a while

Sounds a little odd indeed, usually my 5k does a very good job refining the bevel

Good tips. I'll make sure the stones stay really wet, clean, and try running it through the full progression. Maybe I'm just getting some false negatives and need to get all the way through to a shave test.

After you have the bevel set to your satisfaction, take a felt pen a ink the bevel before going to the next hone. Do a few strokes on the next hone and inspect the bevel with your loupe to see if you are getting all the way from the bevel shoulder to the edge. If you are not then possibly you are using too much pressure and flexing the blade just enough to lift the edge and hone more on the shoulder of the bevel. The more hollow the grind the less pressure is desired because of how awful easy it is to flex the blade.

Bob

Are you using tape? Do you re fresh the 5k surface before honing? Do you use the refreshed slurry or wipe it off?

I also agree with above pressure kills after bevel set. I use to think I was using light pressure until I gained more experience honing many razors and slowly but surely realized I could go even lighter than I was and found with lightening the pressure a whole new level of sharp and comfortable was revealed.

Strop it and shave test. Do it after the 1K and then after the 5K. If the bevel was truly set it should shave at both times.

Originally Posted by BobH

After you have the bevel set to your satisfaction, take a felt pen a ink the bevel before going to the next hone. Do a few strokes on the next hone and inspect the bevel with your loupe to see if you are getting all the way from the bevel shoulder to the edge. If you are not then possibly you are using too much pressure and flexing the blade just enough to lift the edge and hone more on the shoulder of the bevel. The more hollow the grind the less pressure is desired because of how awful easy it is to flex the blade.

Bob

Good tip. I'll try that too. Thanks!

Originally Posted by dshaves

Are you using tape? Do you re fresh the 5k surface before honing? Do you use the refreshed slurry or wipe it off?

I also agree with above pressure kills after bevel set. I use to think I was using light pressure until I gained more experience honing many razors and slowly but surely realized I could go even lighter than I was and found with lightening the pressure a whole new level of sharp and comfortable was revealed.

I am using tape, just one layer of 3M. Would 1-2 more layers help, especially against blade flex and honing on the shoulder of the bevel as BobH pointed out as a possible problem? I do clean the 5K surface with my DMT 325 and use the refreshed slurry. Use it plain or keep the slurry?