Thread: Why do I get better edges with tape?

Like overall pressure, torque is reduced as you get closer to finishing.

Originally Posted by Utopian

Like overall pressure, torque is reduced as you get closer to finishing.

Thanks
I guess I've been doing it wrong all along.
I lessened the pressure as I was moving up the grit, but at the same time tried to torque it more. No wonder my edges always took a lot of work to get to a bare minimum of usability.

Torque & Pressure

Just learn to watch the ripple of water at the front of the edge, it should either be at the front of the edge, (low grits) on riding up onto the edge or undercutting (higher grits)

Use the LEAST amount of torque and pressure to ride that wave from start to finish

Now comes the cool part, the higher you get in grit, and the finer the striations become on the bevel, the lighter the torque and pressure required to ride the wave.
Just don't let the wave drop under the edge and you are golden.

Originally Posted by gssixgun

Now comes the cool part, the higher you get in grit, and the finer the striations become on the bevel, the lighter the torque and pressure required to ride the wave.
Just don't let the wave drop under the edge and you are golden.

Nice reminder. On a couple of mine, I undercut the wave easily with no torque on the towards-me stroke, but the wave slides under the blade on the away stroke... Unless I apply torque... Blade geometry? Or a function of the bevel I initially set? Any other advice?
Thanks in advance.

Originally Posted by gssixgun

Torque & Pressure

Just learn to watch the ripple of water at the front of the edge, it should either be at the front of the edge, (low grits) on riding up onto the edge or undercutting (higher grits)

Use the LEAST amount of torque and pressure to ride that wave from start to finish

Now comes the cool part, the higher you get in grit, and the finer the striations become on the bevel, the lighter the torque and pressure required to ride the wave.
Just don't let the wave drop under the edge and you are golden.

I think I lost count at 2 video's you've done illustrating tape vs no tape, and the fact that it makes no difference other than protecting the spine from excessive wear.

You also quite adamantly point out, change the tape at each stone progression.

I've always used tape simply to protect the spines on my razors, and remember speed kills, too much pressure kills, don't necessarily count strokes, it's done when it's done.

Nothing like a razor coming off the stones and for a new shave.

Still the funniest vid I've seen of yours, if the 30k finishing video, 4 laps and done...more time to set the camera up, or wet the stone, or put the tape on the razor, then it did to finish it....

That, and the guy who sold his 30k stone because he found a better one to sharpen his lawnmower blades.....his description of wanting his lawn exactly flat was hilarious!!

Originally Posted by lookingatpictures

Thanks
I guess I've been doing it wrong all along.
I lessened the pressure as I was moving up the grit, but at the same time tried to torque it more. No wonder my edges always took a lot of work to get to a bare minimum of usability.

I need to clarify...

This concept of torque always is hard to clarify. Don't think of it as an actual rotational torque. Instead, just focus on putting pressure on the edge and not on the spine. The spine is an angle guide so it needs to maintain contact with the hone but you don't need to remove any steel from the spine, only the bevel.

Thanks a lot guys, just shaved with the "taped razor" and it wasn't perfect but way better than the last shave. Then I took the razor, went back to 6k to erase the microbevel and then slurried up the cnat again and went through the dilutions with gradually less pressure and I didn't even try to torque anything like I did before. The blade is tree topping my arm hair with a nice popping sound and I'm hopeful that the next shave will be even better than the one today. I finally feel like I'm on the right path, what a relief.

Originally Posted by 32t

How often do you have to change tape when you use it?



With tape could you be worried less about spine wear and twisting the blade less to the edge?

Originally Posted by Utopian

I need to clarify...

This concept of torque always is hard to clarify. Don't think of it as an actual rotational torque. Instead, just focus on putting pressure on the edge and not on the spine. The spine is an angle guide so it needs to maintain contact with the hone but you don't need to remove any steel from the spine, only the bevel.

I think that we are trying to say the same or at least similar.

The spine is a guide and you don't want to wear that down at least to fast compared to the edge. Therefore less pressure on the spine.

If you replace your tape very often you are still placing more pressure on the spine than needed or wanted.

When using tape the average person doesn't want to replace it often so it makes them change the pressure on the spine.

Although I still replace tape as I go on one blade I do it very less often than when I started.

This has been a wonderful thread, not that I should have expected anything different, but I always anticipate a bit of when there is the word "tape" in the subject line. Instead, what we have is a discussion that is wonderfully helpful to someone such as myself who is still quite early in their pursuit of proper honing.

I had not previously considered the difference that the smoothness of the tape might make in my stroke. Actually, I'm still spending quite a bit of time trying to figure out how to make my "towards" stroke equal and opposite of my "away" stroke. My "away" stroke seems somewhat akin to trying to write my name with my non-dominant hand. If there are any secrets to making that a reality, I'm all ears.

I tend to use my off hand index finger as a guide on the tip of the spine over the toe, not applying downward pressure, but just slightly pushing blade in the intended direction. This has been helpful to me, but I'm also concerned about picking up bad habits.

Thanks all

Originally Posted by cwomg

This has been a wonderful thread, not that I should have expected anything different, but I always anticipate a bit of when there is the word "tape" in the subject line. Instead, what we have is a discussion that is wonderfully helpful to someone such as myself who is still quite early in their pursuit of proper honing.

I had not previously considered the difference that the smoothness of the tape might make in my stroke. Actually, I'm still spending quite a bit of time trying to figure out how to make my "towards" stroke equal and opposite of my "away" stroke. My "away" stroke seems somewhat akin to trying to write my name with my non-dominant hand. If there are any secrets to making that a reality, I'm all ears.

I tend to use my off hand index finger as a guide on the tip of the spine over the toe, not applying downward pressure, but just slightly pushing blade in the intended direction. This has been helpful to me, but I'm also concerned about picking up bad habits.

Thanks all

It's a great journey, and there is nothing like having a shave with an edge you've perfected for yourself, that you learn after awhile just how you like the edge, exactly how many strokes after the stones to use on some CROX.

I'm going to link to a thread I posted awhile ago, a great little project, and something I still find to be incredibly useful, after the finishing stones, and if you even need a touch up.

https://straightrazorpalace.com/stro...ing-board.html

@cwong - what you're describing is, "honing gymnastics", each razor is unique, and requires a different touch and approach. I've had razors that I thought would take hours to bevel set and progress to finishing stones take an hour, and others that I thought would be easy, took me two days, frustration sets in, and get up and walk away.

Glen's videos, as well as others help an awful lot as well as I'm sure you know....

And then enjoy the journey into HAD.....nothing like an Escher edge on a razor IMO....