Thread: too many hands in the pot spoils the soup?

Just got the belgium coticule yesterday and it looks like we've got the norton, the coticule, and a pasted strop w/ .5 micron paste on one side and .25 micron paste on the other. I wasn't sure if it was necessary to finish with the pastes after finishing with the coticule or if I'm bringing to many factors in.

The coticule would be roughly equivelant to 1 micron pastes. I like shaving directly off the coticule with a light slurry, however .5 and .25 pastes can be used for a slightly more polished and sharp (but also weaker) edge. The higher up in grit you go the more sharp you get; however, the trade off is an edge that is weaker and will need to be touched up more. Only you can decide what is best for you, and to do this you must experiment. Have fun.

It is also worth noting that different types of razors with different steel compositions and grinds can react differently to different types of honing media. It is always better to have too many options than not enough; at least that is what I tell myself to justify my hone aquisition disorder.

Ya! What he said!

yeah, I did the norton low-level pyramid on the wapi, followed by 10 strokes on the belgian, then the .5 and .25, finished it with the newspaper (with probably too much .1) and it worked all right last night. I did my SRP LE with just the low norton pyramid followed by 10 on the belgian and it had some pull tonight so I resorted to the feather. It looks like I will have to give it that the diamond paste treatment tomorrow. Can't wait to see how the tosuke turned out.

I'll keep ya posted

btw, any input would be appreciated

David (and all others, of course)

According to the some, the ultra-high Japanese natural stones actually provide harder longer-lasting edge than man-made high-grit hones and pastes.

I have yet to verify this for myself, but supposedly a famous Japanese smith tested the edges after a 40K natural stone and got different Rockwell results before and after the hone (obviously - higher after some hone love)... just another data point, as Ed would say. Disclaimer - I was only told about this! Can't even find details on the methodology and results

Cheers
Ivo

so a japanese water-stone would be better for the tosuke than the coticule? I've heard mixed reviews and remarks about the kitayama. What other stones are ultra high grit and good quality?

Originally Posted by izlat

David (and all others, of course)

According to the some, the ultra-high Japanese natural stones actually provide harder longer-lasting edge than man-made high-grit hones and pastes.

I have yet to verify this for myself, but supposedly a famous Japanese smith tested the edges after a 40K natural stone and got different Rockwell results before and after the hone (obviously - higher after some hone love)... just another data point, as Ed would say. Disclaimer - I was only told about this! Can't even find details on the methodology and results

Cheers
Ivo

Ivo,
Thanks for sharing the info. It would be really cool if a high grade Japanese stone could produce both a sharper and stronger edge. I do know that I have much less experience with hones than whoever you talked to; however, I just don’t see how this would be physically possible unless the stone had some type of magical Japanese powers. To my knowledge I don’t think that sharpening the steel with a hone can change the metallurgical composition of the steel, so it would not make sense that the Rockwell would be different before and after it gets love from the hone. Also it was my understanding that the way that a finer stone can produce a sharper edge is by replacing the deeper scratch pattern left by the courser stone with a shallower scratch pattern and thinner edge. This would have to mean that the edge is less sturdy because there is less metal to support it. If you could talk to the person who sold you your high grade stone, I would be very interested to hear his explanation as to how the Japanese stone could produce a sharper and stronger edge than a lesser stone. Also if I have a flaw in my reasoning please correct me.

David

David,

here's a quote from www.Japan-tool.com, I got something more in an email that I may have deleted:

... the natural stone sharpening has a hardening effect on the tip of the blade. This has been proven scientifically by the HRC testing machine, experiment done by renowned plane blacksmith Usui Kengo. The hardness was actually harder after being polished by a fine Nakayama stone.

As I said, I have no details. I am pretty sure that internally the metal is the same, of course - guess it would have to do with surface effects, which I do not pretend to understand well

Cheers
Ivo

That is very cool info. My mother just got back from Japan and brought me a hone that she bought at a famous knife shop. She asked for a very fine razor hone and supposedly that was "the one" to get. I have been putting off trying it out because I am still experimenting with that nice Escher that you sold me; however, with this new info I might have to break it out sooner than I was planning. The only thing is that I have absolutely no infor on this stone and can't read Japanese. Maybe if I post some pictures somebody can tell me what type of stone I got and if it is any good for razors.