Thread: Dipping my toes into naturals. Thanks to JP5

Arkansas stones can require some practice, effort, and learning. The 20k is pretty much fool proof. It all depends on what you want. Do you love to figure things out? The lure of natural rocks vs man made, the pride of learning an advanced system? Or do you enjoy consistent, easy edges, without much effort involved? I don’t know that one is “better” than the other. One is “better “ for me though. I can see why the 20k gets so much love but I can also see why some knuckleheads are in love with a natural Rock. I have been romancing the Stone since I began. I don’t think this 20k stone will change that BUT you never know.

Glad to see you're making progress with the ark Jerry. I guess I'll be honing vicariously for the time being.

Jerry, you mentioned the edge being less keen than the 20k. Do you feel like it was any smoother or more comfortable?

I think the best thing i can say is it felt different. Almost as if the edge was rounded and not sharp. But we know it was sharp. It cut my whiskers just fine. So i guess you could call it a more comfortable feel. I think i enjoy a comfortable sha e with a keen feeling edge more. I like the feel of the sharpness and the G20k gives me this and smoother than just the 12k stone.

The 12k stone is a great finisher. But to me, it can leave a harsh feeling edge. The G20k seems to smooth that out. When it come to sharp, at this level its hard to say one is sharper than the other. I think its more in the feel you get.

So the Arkie was keen as it cut very well but didnt feel as keen. The 12k cuts well but feels a bit harsh if you give it many laps. And the 20k smooths out the 12k, gives a smoother edge and keeps the keen feel.

YMMV, but this is what im coming up with. For now!

Hope that helps and dont confuse. And as always... JMO!

You also have to keep in mind that 8ve only honed 3 razors on the Arkie so far.

Thanks for posting your thoughts. I know it can be difficult to articulate the minute differences in edges finished with different stones. Maybe after it gets broken in you'll like it even better. Sounds like they would be a good finisher for someone who wanted a large natural Stone that didn't cost $300.

Originally Posted by JP5

Thanks for posting your thoughts. I know it can be difficult to articulate the minute differences in edges finished with different stones. Maybe after it gets broken in you'll like it even better. Sounds like they would be a good finisher for someone who wanted a large natural Stone that didn't cost $300.

+1. Well said. The end Shave results with a Arkansas edge and a Gok20 are identical for me. If you are coming off a respectable 8,10, or 12k edge, a Translucent/Black Arkansas are pretty easy stones to use with consistent results providing you prep them right. An ALL arkansas progression is a different story but just as a finishing stone they are o e of the most effective that I have used. Unfortunately the prices on them have went up the past few years though. I picked up my 8X2x1 translucent years back for $80. They are closer to $200 for that size now unless you find them in the wild.

That is a beautiful stone!
If I was buying an Arkansas finisher only, I think I would be disappointed. Especially if I was shaving with edges off a Gokumyo 20K (I never have but I'm guessing sweet). I've never used other hones so my perspective is limited. IME, when an edge gets to the point a pasted strop is not refreshing, its going to take a lot of time on the trans to get it comfortable again. I go to my hard ark first (left burnished from the last use) and do maybe 20-50 light passes. Then to the trans, maybe a couple hundred passes. I always finish on a crox pasted strop and then leather. I love the shaves from my arkies. I've shaved with some great edges from some skilled honers and an arkie edge, from bevel set to finish, does not feel like a 12K edge. But it is every bit as comfortable (personally, I think more comfortable). They take time to figure out (without the help from members here, I'd still be struggling with them), but are great hones.
Love my arks

I don’t know the condition of your (OP) stone, it looks fairly new. Before you invest a lot of time and effort burnishing, check to make sure it is flat and smooth, use a straight edge and light.

Rub the stone dry on a piece of 600 -1k on a flat surface. Hold it up to the light and you will see any imperfections. You will have to lap those out for a perfect, smooth surface or no amount of burnishing will matter.

Lap with loose Silicone Oxide, if bad or wet and dry and water on a steel cookie sheet until flat and shiny up to 2k wet and dry. Once flat it goes quickly to smooth.

Now burnish with a wide chisel or large knife with pressure. I like a large carbon steel cleaver, I can use both hands and apply a lot of pressure.

Burnishing is done in small sections, working a 1x1.5 in section, depending on your tool steel. It is more like scraping steel, working small overlapping sections. OX Tools has some good post on scraping steel. Once you have burnished the whole face, do over lapping 2-inch strokes, then full length to blend the whole surface.

Working methodically over a stone is more effective than randomly rubbing a stone. 30 min to an hour should produce a very nice polished stone face. You only have to burnish it once, it’s good for life and will only get smoother with use.

Then you have to learn your stone, with arks the lubricant and pressure make a big difference. I like water and Smith’s Honing oil or Ballistol, some folks don’t like the smell of Ballistol, I do. Pressure is something you have to figure out, as arks work better for me with more pressure than most stones at finishing.

High grit natural finishers are different from synthetic stones, probably because of the random variety of grit types and sizes. Where synthetics are very uniform. The randomness produces the hazy finish and a super micro chipped edge. Synthetics a uniform stria pattern and laser straight edge. One can really see this on film, where we are dealing with a thin layer of very uniform grit that leave a machine-like stria pattern.

So, the edges they produce are very different, add in variables like razor steel, skin, beard type and honing technique, it is no wonder that the “feel” is very subjective.

For me an Ark edge is very different from other stones, one that I enjoy. I like an ark edge off of a near stria free, 8k Naniwia Snow White (white box) stropped on linen and leather.

Lots of great posts and info.
The stone as it came from Dans is flat and true both sides.
I just needed to prep the one side.
I am enjoying playing with it.
Thanks for all the input and tips. They are most helpful.
Ken.

"Pressure is something you have to figure out, as arks work better for me with more pressure than most stones at finishing."I agree with Euclid/Marty on this one-I find myself using considerably more blade torque on my SB and Trans Arks (both of which are smooth as glass) than I do on other finishers, which I have mostly abandoned in favor of my Arks. Most of my blades are at least quarter hollow, fairly beefy, or even near-wedges, so obviously you wouldn't be able to torque as much on a full or singing hollow. But that reasonable amount of pressure makes an otherwise painfully long Arkie session go much more quickly, and I haven't damaged an edge yet doing this; like Marty says, you have to go by feel on your stone under your hands. I'm not into hundreds of x-strokes myself, which is what has turned many razor honers off from finishing with Arks.

Just add the next level of lubricant as it starts to stick or dig-in. I am also experimenting with the "thin to thick" lube progression on an Ark, as I outlined in post #234 in Hone of the Day. As others mentioned, I too have enjoyed excellent edges off the G20; in fact, I once finished all my edges with one thanks to Ron/Utopian at the Asheville meet in 2014.

But like many of you, I just enjoy tinkering around with the naturals-something about getting a lazer-sharp edge off a rock that is millions of years old that someone pulled out of the earth is just a cool feeling, isn't it?

Yesterday I tried Aaron's dry to oil progression and knew immediately it was superior to how I had been finishing my razors. Today's shave confirmed that. Straight from the stone to leather, no crox (I had gotten into the habit of just finishing on the crox strop).
Absolutely stoked. Now to the rest of the rotation. I do want to try this minus the final oil step; stop after the dish soap just for giggles.
I like to say that everything I've learned about shaving with a straight I learned from the Palace and its members. Why this place is invaluable.
Thank you,
Paul