Thread: How higer magnification made me a better honer.

This past week I learned a tremendous amount about how my Arkansas stones perform by using an old microscope. Jerry, Gasman, had started a great thread showing pics of his bevels and it prodded me to pull out my fathers old microscope (made around 1900). It was awkward to use but the feedback was invaluable. According to the chart that came with the scope, I was using 87 magnification. The images were not pretty. Even my best shavers looked awful. The main issue for my edges were I was not removing all the old, deep stria and the chipping was hard to look at. I was not spending the proper time on removing the deep stria before moving up to the next stone. The cheap, lighted 30x loupe I've been using did not show me what I needed to know.
So I spent the better part of a weekend honing and checking with the scope at every step; time consuming but fun and ultimately rewarding! Here is what I learned:
-My Soft Ark is pretty much useless in my progression of hones: All the work I need to do from bevel set up to my hard ark can be done with the 'Washita' I have (I bought this at Woodcraft and don't even know if it is a Washita, what I do know is this is a versatile stone).
-The course side of the Crystolon prep stone I use should never be used except for the heaviest of chip repair; the slurry generated is too course and leaves deep stria that is hard to remove. The fine side generates a very effective slurry that does a superior job. On the Washita I often repeated this step numerous times to achieve the desired results. I actually do not know what this slurry is comprised of; minute particles of washita, crystolon, both more than likely. Its almost a black slurry. As I work the bevel I gradually thin it with additional oil and cleaning. When done and ready to move up it leaves a very uniform appearance to the bevel and completely eliminates any deep stria.
-I was being far too cautious on using circles when honing. Now I'm going to town; walking those circles up and down the stones. And then again. And again. Rocking the blade from heal to toe while doing circles assured complete coverage of the bevel.
-I was not spending near enough time on the hard Ark. Again, prep with fine crystolon, circles, all manner of strokes. Finish lightly of course.
-The translucent leaves no mark that I can ascertain with 87 mag.. Purely a polisher as it is supposed to be.

When finished I do not have a stria free bevel. However, the stria are extremely uniform and tight. The edge look laser straight. However, with 87 mag. the edge still looks saw-toothed (hard to see at this maginification but still there).

Now I'm sure that a slurry is needed to create a stria free edge and I want this. Now to figure out how to accomplish this with my arks. More to work on. One thing I was thinking of doing, and talk me down if this is a bad idea, was to use the CROX crayon to make a slurry with oil on either the hard or translucent stone. Anyone ever tried this?
Are my shaves magnitudes better? No. But my upper lip and chin say they are better.
Thought I'd share my experiences with using Arkansas stones.
Paul the Honeleaster

I don’t use naturals but what you were experiencing was typical for me at one point too. Once I started REALLY looking at what was happening, things got so much better. And yes, deep scratches were a problem. I have been and continue to be a huge fan of using 8k slurry. I’m only using synthetics so my stone preogression is different from yours. But the 4K stone is pretty aggressive. Using 8k slurry, I can buff those scratches away before the edge is developed. Then when I rinse and bring that edge up, it’s in its best condition. The finishing stones just improve the edge more and more.

Congrads Paul!

It's a great thing when your edges get better. As far as slurry goes, I'm not using it much at all but I'm on Synthetic stones. Naturals are a much different animal. I'm working with clean stones after a little slurry at 4K. The 8K stone being clean is clearing the scratches better for me. Slurry is adding more scratches. And the 8K is course enough even when clean, that it takes out the 4K or 5K scratches out. I still end up with a few left on the bevel in the end but a lot, lot less than I used to have, and the edge is smooth and straight.

I think higher magnification can be over done. Yes, its great for learning what you're doing, but after a while, you will know what is happening and you can recognize what the bevel and edge should look like with a loupe. The pics I posted were about the same magnification as you are using and the edge looks like a straight line. So I hope you are getting the same soon.
I just had a shave with one of the razors I honed this fine/well, and the edge almost felt dull compared to the edge I'm used too. This was the amount of comfort that is now in the edge, and I understand now that what I was thinking was keenness was actually harshness. The edge slid thru the whiskers with no pulling and my shave was great. I even grabbed up the Alum block and found next to no sting.

So keep up the good learning. Look at the microscope and keep in mind that the bevel is one thing that should have very few scratches. but the main thing is the edge being straight and smooth with no variance at that magnification to get a great comfortable edge. At some point, we both will be getting better edges, but there is a limit to what we can feel.

I don’t know if creating that slurry will give you the visual effect you’re looking for at that magnification, but I’d love to hear how the shave went afterwards! Hell, I’m thinking of trying it right now myself!

FYI - as a general rule, CROX is 0.5 microns, which roughly translates to a grit well beyond the 40K mark. < https://www.gessweincanada.com/category-s/11328.htm >.

You should be fine save me blowing my “facts.”


EDIT - I got some time, I’m going to try!

Magnification can be over used, my loupe is 15x and it works fine for me. I'm basically looking for chips and over all mirror finish on the bevel. New DE blades look terrible through major magnification but still shave very well. You can drive yourself crazy chasing edges with over magnification as everything will start looking bad at some point

So I went for it. Woot! I went a couple on the “Hard” to just make sure everything along the blade was playing fair, and then went to town on the Black. Black is the finest I’ve got with respect to Arks.

Rather than going straight to the CrOx, I decided to have a little 1 micron action via the old diamond spray first. It was great, in that it acted like a “proper” slurry living on top of the oiled stone, dissipating over the sides with every pass.




The CrOx however, well now, that mixed in with the oil and permeated the stone. Nice! I say nice because there is no way this can even come close to hurting the Black, so hone on I did!

My hand tells me that the method worked wonders! My magnifying loupe is useless at this point. I have what looks like an almost perfectly polished edge with a perfectly straight edge... so you know the loupe is useless lol. But my hand says good things.

I’m off to test it on my face. I’ll give the blade a little leather, but that’s it.

Here goes!

Originally Posted by earcutter

So I went for it. Woot! I went a couple on the “Hard” to just make sure everything along the blade was playing fair, and then went to town on the Black. Black is the finest I’ve got with respect to Arks.

Rather than going straight to the CrOx, I decided to have a little 1 micron action via the old diamond spray first. It was great, in that it acted like a “proper” slurry living on top of the oiled stone, dissipating over the sides with every pass.




The CrOx however, well now, that mixed in with the oil and permeated the stone. Nice! I say nice because there is no way this can even come close to hurting the Black, so hone on I did!

My hand tells me that the method worked wonders! My magnifying loupe is useless at this point. I have what looks like an almost perfectly polished edge with a perfectly straight edge... so you know the loupe is useless lol. But my hand says good things.

I’m off to test it on my face. I’ll give the blade a little leather, but that’s it.

Here goes!

Interesting!!! I don't have the diamond but will try some CrOx on a stone in the near future

Originally Posted by rodb

Interesting!!! I don't have the diamond but will try some CrOx on a stone in the near future

I just shaved!

You’ll note that the razor I’m using is a Dovo Best. Ironically lol, it’s not my best straight, but it was my first straight, and the blade I know best! So I use it for every “experiment” I do with my stones.

Ok, so yeah, nice! My Dovo off a black is generally always “keen.” I’ve honed it often off the black, so I know what to expect. And what I generally always get is, a couple passes in before I stop and strop it on my CrOx strop - which is enough to calm it down. Not this time. No need. The blade was smooth.

Which really makes sense right? I just skipped the pasted strop part!

I really enjoyed the shave, it wasn’t the keenest I’ve had the blade, but it sure was one of the most comfortable. It was what a good coti hone gives you if you’ve ever had one.

After the shave, the alum proved out that I pressed down too hard. There was a little sting. Not much. What I really want to know is, did I press down because the blade wasn’t keen enough? Or because it was so comfortable, I got lazy. I’m leaning towards the latter.

I’m no honemaster. I actually kind of suck at it compared to most, the majority of the time using pasted strops to get me what some get off a stone. I could shave off the stone this way no problem me thinks.

Originally Posted by earcutter

I just shaved!

You’ll note that the razor I’m using is a Dovo Best. Ironically lol, it’s not my best straight, but it was my first straight, and the blade I know best! So I use it for every “experiment” I do with my stones.

Ok, so yeah, nice! My Dovo off a black is generally always “keen.” I’ve honed it often off the black, so I know what to expect. And what I generally always get is, a couple passes in before I stop and strop it on my CrOx strop - which is enough to calm it down. Not this time. No need. The blade was smooth.

Which really makes sense right? I just skipped the pasted strop part!

I really enjoyed the shave, it wasn’t the keenest I’ve had the blade, but it sure was one of the most comfortable. It was what a good coti hone gives you if you’ve ever had one.

After the shave, the alum proved out that I pressed down too hard. There was a little sting. Not much. What I really want to know is, did I press down because the blade wasn’t keen enough? Or because it was so comfortable, I got lazy. I’m leaning towards the latter.

I’m no honemaster. I actually kind of suck at it compared to most, the majority of the time using pasted strops to get me what some get off a stone. I could shave off the stone this way no problem me thinks.

Awesome! Thank you for giving this a go. I'm looking forward to playing with this also. I had looked also at the edge after stropping on CROX and the polishing (beyond the trans) was evident.
The increased magnification may not be needed for general maintenance but it sure is interesting and for those using naturals it can really tell you what your stones are doing. I just have to figure a better way to manage the razor with the old scope.
Paul

Originally Posted by Paulbuck

Awesome! Thank you for giving this a go. I'm looking forward to playing with this also. I had looked also at the edge after stropping on CROX and the polishing (beyond the trans) was evident.
The increased magnification may not be needed for general maintenance but it sure is interesting and for those using naturals it can really tell you what your stones are doing. I just have to figure a better way to manage the razor with the old scope.
Paul

I actually wish I had better magnification!

I can’t wait to hear yours and everyone else’s results. I could have just got lucky.

Glad you started the thread. That was fun.