Thread: simple honing under the stereo scope

Just to remind everyone there was a thread a while back that contained an experiment of shaving with a razor at each level of grit used. Glen would know where it is at. I tried it as I finally addressed doing my own honing (after a year of straight razor shaving). It was a revelation and an eye-opener and the best hands-on learning experience I ever had. Worth looking up and doing if you are new to the honing part of shaving with straights.

You are not shaving off a 6k edge, it is a 30k, .50um Chrome Oxide edge. With paste you can go much quicker and higher, with Nano grits.

The goal of bevel setting is not to produce a shaving edge, it is to,1) flatten the bevels, 2) set them at the correct angle and, 3)get them to meet at the edge. You can refine a 1k edge by altering pressure and technique, trailing or leading. But No-one will be shaving off a 1k edge, except those that shave with EDC knives.

The difference between edge trailing and edge leading is, with trailing you produce a burr and break it off, creating a microscopic ragged edge by stropping, leading you cut off the burr with each stroke and produce a straighter, stronger edge. Ragged edges work well for knives, tools and axes, with razors you also must consider the skin the bevel and edge ride on, not just the sharpness of cutting edge.

For hundreds of years guys have shaved very well, off natural stones and barber hones probably in the 6-8k range. Blue slate stones run the gamut from slate pavers to fine finisher like Vosgienne and Salmen finishing stones.

Natural stones are natural, the composition or each stone and grit are unknown. Some can finish. A 12k Naniwia can do it all from bevel set, chip removal to finish. Check out this post, (12K Super Stone Chip Removal/Bevel Set). If you want a one stone solution, but why?

Also, a lot of deep vertical scratches on your pre-honed razor bevel, and most probably chipping your edge, your strop needs cleaning or replacement. Improper stropping and grit on leather strops do much more edge damage than shaving. A properly honed edge, properly stropped will last a very long time. Stropping is very under rated.

.....leading you cut off the burr with each stroke and produce a straighter, stronger edge.

I like this idea. Joe was showing how the particles of the stone are forced into the edge and causing a ragged edge. BUT, This also makes for a stronger edge in the end after you progress thru the finer grits. It straightens the impacted edge and refines it straighter. Joe's theory is good and seems to work, but I think by edge leading, you would get a stronger, longer lasting edge.

JMO, from someone still learning. Both ideas are sound. But which one is best? I'd have to go with the way it has been done for decades, edge leading. But what do I know?

“Joe was showing how the particles of the stone are forced into the edge and causing a ragged edge. BUT, This also makes for a stronger edge in the end after you progress thru the finer grits. It straightens the impacted edge and refines it straighter.”

So, is the ragged edge from edge impact, or from the deep stria from the bevel setting stone that end in a divot, at the edge.

Each of the edge chips are followed by a deep stria, it is not edge impact damage. Look at the deep stria and follow it to the edge, if it ends in a chip it is the stria that was cut by the stone grit in the stone, not impact damage.

Slurry edge impact is along debated subject, but in my opinion false, at least in this example.

Which would be more likely to deform a steel edge, a microscopic flake of steel or grit particle floating in a liquid slurry or a grit particle imbedded into a stone and held fast by the binder? If a piece of steel is imbedded into the stone it will not only impact the edge, it will leave stria on the bevel, honed leading or trailing.

Perhaps at a microscopic level there is some sub- micron edge chipping, but not at a micron or larger level.

If steel has a memory, and you are breaking the burr off an edge, you are tearing the steel at the edge and causing damage/stress to the steel at the edge and below it. The goal for honing razors, is to make the edge as smooth as possible on both bevels, that will withstand cutting hair and STROPPING, and will feel smooth on the skin.

For a knife or tool edge we don’t care about the smoothness, just the cutting ability. Wood, paper and rope, does not complain.

Stropping, proper stropping will revive any damage done to an edge by shaving, but if the strop is dirty or too much pressure is used, especially at the flip, by wrist flipping as opposed to finger flipping or too much downward pressure, any edge will fail at the weakest point, where it has already been stressed. An edge trailing honed edge is full of stressed steel or at least more stressed material than an edge that is cleanly cut as opposed to torn.

So, while limited edge trailing honing can be use as a finishing technique, it is an inherently flawed method of honing for razors, building in stress and a less polished/keen edge than a progression of edge leading strokes.

Will it shave, yes. Will it last? For most that are heavy handed stroppers, it probably does not matter. Actually stropping on Chromium Oxide did more for the shave than the honing technique.

Do 2-300 laps on Chromium Oxide, and call me in the morning…