Thread: Sharpness tests

“I used a marker on the razor to check my stroke and to see if the bevel was being set.“

Marker will not tell you if the bevels are meeting/set. Marker will tell you if you are honing to the edge. If the bevels never meet, there is no edge.

It sounds like the bevel was never fully set. Look at the edge.

Like Marty said, take a look at the edge, use a lamp and see if you can catch any light glinting off of it.

Using light strokes is good but you’re not there yet. Set the razor flat on the 1k stone like your going to start your stroke, now twist the razor like you’re trying to dig the edge into the stone without lifting the spine, this is the kind of applied pressure you want to use. Now, torquing the blade, make your swooping x strokes like you did before but using some pressure, you don’t need a ton just enough to feel like the hone is cutting more aggressively. You can get away with a fair bit of this kind of pressure. If the razor starts to get away from you or your stroke isn’t consistent back off until it is. This technique with set the bevels much faster. Once you get a real edge drag it on the side of the hone, just enough to knock the edge off. This will take care of any kind of burr you may have ended up with and the general problems from a newly created edge. Now use your light strokes, the edge will come back quickly. After that just roll through your progression.

+1 for Euclid’s visual method. It’s what I use up to 4k/5k. If there’s anything seriously wrong, you can see it under a bare bulb. It isn’t totally infallible at 1-2k though, the scratch pattern can obscure some almost-but-not-quite bevel issues that become more apparent at 4/5k when the steel begins to pick up a polish. But it’s usually no issue to go back a grit and fix things up once you’ve seen them.

Once I’m off the 4/5k grit, I strop 10 canvas/20 cordovan and HHT. If the edge cuts hair cleanly and the same all along the edge at 4-5k, the bevel is perfectly set.

Cheers, Steve

For me it’s the TNT after the 1k ts where I start, used to use cherry tomatoes all the time and still do when I have them but most of the time it’s the TNT and watch that water wave then I just move thru the stones, if the wave is not looking right I break out a loupe to see what’s going on.

After I have gone to final finish I Strop and do an HHT and 99% of the time it’s good to shave with but there are times when I’m just not happy and go back to the stones or I will sometimes just touch a pasted strop to get that last bit of edge

Originally Posted by Gasman

Mark and Glen got it covered for ya.
You just need to know what works for you.
Above the arm, Hair test, or tree topping as its called, after finishing is a good one but it can tell you two things. One, You have microchips and it's pinching the hairs in half or two, you got an edge so sharp its finding the spot between the folicals and wedging them apart. (If that's the right word? I know its not spelled right.)
TNT at bevel set and TPT at finish plus a good loupe should tell you everything, but you need to know what its really telling you. And that takes practice. Non-consistency is normally from not enough practice. Keep at it and keep testing. You will find what works. Sure you can shave off an 8K, but I bet most of us would consider that a Pre-finisher.

I prefer to think of it as entry level to a comfortable shave. In fact I've gotten rather lax on my honing, and at the moment the only straight I have giving me a comfortable shave from my rotation is the one I've been maintaining with a Franz Swaty barber hone that only gets an edge to around 8K. All the rest need a touch up, and I can't seem to be able to decide what hone set and method I want to employ...the down side (if there is such a thing!) of purchasing more hones than one man can use in a lifetime I guess? I've seen it said before that if you can't strop and shave at 8K anything you do beyond that is just wasted time because you'll be going back down to 1K or 4K when your edge disappoints you.

That said, the loupe has become my go-to ready checker. When I look at the edge and don't see any micro chips or burrs, the scratch pattern & polish matches what I expect to get out of the stone that I'm using, and I can flip the edge up and look straight down at the apex to see that it's completely joined heel to toe, then I know beyond a shadow of doubt the edge is as good as my hands can make it with that hone.If for some reason I get finished with the 8K, it looks good under the loupe, I strop and it doesn't shave comfortably - then I take the loupe out again and look the edge over to see what I overlooked during my inspections (or if I rolled the edge with poor stropping technique).

In my opinion, this is the most reliable test you can do because it relies on objective observation, rather than subjective tactile feel which is likely to miss things that negatively impact a shave. I'm sure every blade I've got would catch a thumb nail fine, and most could be dragged across one with no perceptible burrs or chips. To the thumb pad, they all feel razor sharp and even cut arm hair above skin level and pop it handily at the surface. Like the Germania Cutlery works I just picked up and tested did. Under a loupe, it seems to have the tiniest bit of microchipping near the edge leading to a slightly tuggy shave. Things my coarse mechanic's mitts with mostly dead nerve endings at the finger tips can't detect, but my face is more than happy to point out. Which doesn't mean that I don't ever try other tests, but ultimately the loupe is the arbiter of what is or is not ready to be taken to the ultimate test: the shave test. Your mileage may vary, some restrictions may apply.

Those that know me, know I love the cherry tomato test.

When a bevel is set, every mm of edge should easily cut the skin of a cherry tomato with minimal pressure and a slight slicing motion. Any resistance and the bevel is not set.

The feeling should be 99% similar to a shave ready razor cutting the same cherry tomato

So, yes, the tomato test works, but it is like any other test, it must be calibrated, the user needs to learn what the level of sharp feels like when using the test.

As demonstrated by Doc in the video, the first test was able to cut the tomato skin but not at the level the user knew would provide the best shave. He knew there was more he could get out of the edge.

That an edge will cut a tomato skin, is not an indicator that a bevel is fully set, only when the user has calibrated what a fully set bevel “feels” like is the test valid. As has been said a buffed razor with no bevel will cut a tomato skin.

Like any other test, even the shave test, it must be calibrated by the user. There is shaving, and there is shaving. Any one who has honed for a while will tell you, their edges and shaved improved with time.

It is just another test, if you plan to use it, you will have to learn the nuance of the cut. Pick a test or two or three and use them, eventually you will learn the different levels of sharpness.

Nice video, Doc.

Thanks for replies.

I think I am making some progress. Using jfk742's advice about torque helped. I think I am gettting a better idea about that. Also looking at the edge to see if there is any reflection, and to see if it is even. I sharpened a razor today and had a comfortable shave, even caugtht a hair on the HHT which is a first for me.

Thanks for advice

Joe

Hi Joe,
When you‘ve got the edge of 8k which is not cutting your arm hair above the skin level, how does this edge shave your face?


P.S. I do use „3 finger test“ in lower stages of sharpening. At the finishing stage I often use HHT with head hairs from different people (relatives)

Thanks
Regards
Philipp