Thread: Taping while honing

Honewear is mostly caused at the bevel setting stage and will depend on the grind of the razor and the amount of metal that needs to be removed to create a new bevel.

On a full hollow that needs a new bevel, I will normally set the bevel with one layer of tape. I will then reset the bevel on a coticule without tape and proceed on the same stone from sharpening to finish. Reseting the bevel from taped to untaped is only a matter of a few laps, the angle difference is really very slight.

As far as future honewear caused by edge refreshes, It would take a substantial amount of edge refreshes (very light strokes with water only) on a coticule for honewear to be a concern on my rotation of razors.

I never use it, unless there's something severely wrong with the razor and edge bevel angle. Ergo I only use tape to FIX something and never to prevent hone-wear or for cosmetic reasons

Originally Posted by Badgister

Honewear is mostly caused at the bevel setting stage and will depend on the grind of the razor and the amount of metal that needs to be removed to create a new bevel.

On a full hollow that needs a new bevel, I will normally set the bevel with one layer of tape. I will then reset the bevel on a coticule without tape and proceed on the same stone from sharpening to finish. Reseting the bevel from taped to untaped is only a matter of a few laps, the angle difference is really very slight.

This seems to be the ultimate compromise in tape vs no tape. The initial grinding done with tape to eliminate unwanted and unsightly hone wear and then removing the tape and quickly and lightly resetting the bevel and honing without tape as it has repeatedly been shown that the difference is only a few strokes away. I personally just use tape nowadays. 1-3 layers as it keeps it pretty but I used to do this.

Why is normal hone wear ugly? For hundreds of years straight razors were used every day & no one worried about hone wear. Razors are tools just like a tooth brush for personal body care. If properly used & cared for a tooth brush will last a long time.I don't have one razor I will not shave with. On the razors I own now I haven't used tape on any of them, they look good & shave good.
I guess if I have to worry about hone wear on a razor I would just put it in a display case. The whole idea behind the design of a straight razor blade is to keep the angle around the 16*-17* range. If you use tape it will how can the bevel be correct? I guess it really is not important what you do with your razors. I like to think I maintain & use my razors as they were meant to be. Sorry if I offended anyone.
Slawman

Originally Posted by Slawman

Why is normal hone wear ugly? For hundreds of years straight razors were used every day & no one worried about hone wear. Razors are tools just like a tooth brush for personal body care. If properly used & cared for a tooth brush will last a long time.I don't have one razor I will not shave with. On the razors I own now I haven't used tape on any of them, they look good & shave good.
I guess if I have to worry about hone wear on a razor I would just put it in a display case. The whole idea behind the design of a straight razor blade is to keep the angle around the 16*-17* range. If you use tape it will how can the bevel be correct? I guess it really is not important what you do with your razors. I like to think I maintain & use my razors as they were meant to be. Sorry if I offended anyone.
Slawman

No offense taken and as you say each to their own when it comes to taping the spine when honing.

My guess is that if you measured the spine one a few hundred razors possibly 10% would be bang on 17 degrees. The majority might possibly fall into the 15 - 19 degree range. From what I read that is about the manufacturing tolerance for hand honed razors +/- 2 degrees. Using tape alters the bevel angle slightly less than 1 degree.

Really using tape makes little if any difference and is just a personal choice neither right or wrong in most cases. I fail to see how it seems to by such a controversial subject. Much ado about nothing imo.


Bob

Points to Ponder...

Yes, tape wear occurs, but this is not the main reason to change tape frequently... (or maybe its the main, but not the Only reason) As the tape surface wears, most tapes are more "wear resistant" on the surface. Once you have worn through that outer shell/layer the tape begins to break down quicker. This can result in tape particles clogging the stone, or shedding and buggering up your honing. While not an issue on the finer grits like 8k, I have seen it happen on 4k stones.
Secondly, Grit Particulates.... tape is tape... there is both some pliable (embedable) plastic compounds, and some sticky glue If you use any sort of slurry on your finer stones, the slurry particulates can become stuck to the tape, and if it lets go on the next finer stone...again, buggering up your honing. I change tape on every stone change.
Why do I use tape? I dont neccesarily see wide hone wear as ugly, but there is no denying that wider spine contacts and wider bevels create more drag on the strop. I like my razors to slide effortlessly across my leather, with only a little draw. Tiny bevels, and tiny hone wear, makes me happy.

Originally Posted by Slawman

Why is normal hone wear ugly? For hundreds of years straight razors were used every day & no one worried about hone wear. Razors are tools just like a tooth brush for personal body care. If properly used & cared for a tooth brush will last a long time.I don't have one razor I will not shave with. On the razors I own now I haven't used tape on any of them, they look good & shave good.
I guess if I have to worry about hone wear on a razor I would just put it in a display case. The whole idea behind the design of a straight razor blade is to keep the angle around the 16*-17* range. If you use tape it will how can the bevel be correct? I guess it really is not important what you do with your razors. I like to think I maintain & use my razors as they were meant to be. Sorry if I offended anyone.
Slawman

I tend to agree with you, Slawman. The shift comes about with the move to collecting: no longer are your razors just tools, they are now historical items to be preserved; emphasis shifts from the practical to the aesthetic. There is a parallel here with books. I used to have this roommate who was incredibly delicate and meticulous with his books.

He never held the book open all the way so the spines remained pristine, he would carefully turn each page, he had a separate notebook where he would document any passages, pages, or thoughts he had about the book. He loved his books! I love books too and used to take a similar approach, as though not keeping one's books in perfect condition was akin to not respecting one's books. At some point, though (around year 7 in university), it dawns on me that these are the tools of my trade. My father (a farmer) looked after his tools, but only so that he could use them more; his care for his tools never got in the way of using them for all they were worth. And so I began to USE my books: highlighting, underlining, notes in the margins, tabs on the pages. My point here is that we have this tendency to fetishize the thing. The tool (the razor, the book, the ratchet) become the end in themselves, rather than a means to an end (an amazing shaving experience, knowledge, a working tractor).

Now, with all this said, I tape the spine. No judgement for anyone who doesn't and I don't think there is a right or wrong answer here, I just don't see any downside to it. If taping got in the way at all I am sure I wouldn't do it, but as it stands, taping allows me to fully use the razor without compromising its use, in the same way that my dad cleaning and oiling his tools never meant he was babying them or hesitant about using them for what they were meant for (and, being a farmer, often using them for what they weren't meant for too).

There are compelling reasons to use tape aside from geometry. If you’re going to restore and flip razors, one with less spine wear usually pleases the customer.

If you’re honing someone’s gold plated Dovo and it comes back with the gold worn off the spine, you might reasonably be asked to replace it.

Taping the iron omote of a kamosori is a good idea, used ones were almost always wonky - the iron seemed to wear too much even with the best honing technique. Same for framebacks whose spines were not hardened.

And of course geometry correction - I have a straight that I bought at a brocante in France that’s 12 degrees. Yep, 3-4 layers of electrical tape to get it into the ‘normal’ range.

I use 1 mil Kapton for protection, electrical tape (sometimes covered with Kapton since it’s more wear resistant) for geometry correction.

But usually I don’t use it for my personal ‘users’.

Tape or no tape, who cares it’s your razor, but if you don’t tape you won’t hone or sell to me, when I buy a tool I want the best condition I can afford, so the tool analogy doesn’t hunt. But I really think it’s time to nuke anyone starting one of these threads, we have several hundred that could be referred to without new piling on. Really does it matter? Like Steve said, easier and better price for a razor in mint condition than a worn out spine. This is almost as silly as ballistrol or camellia oil, it’s doesnt matter

Do what you will, not will what you do onto others.