Thread: Thoughts on HHT...

Originally Posted by Jnatcat

Like @gssixgun advised use a DE blade to gage your HHT but I use an old badger shave brush for the hair instead of what’s in the hairbrush

Check your edge under a microscope after using anything coarser than human hair. You may get a shock.

"What your question says, is you have stopped circling and are descending into the abyss…"I feel so empty now.

Reminds me of the Neitzche quote: "If you stare long enough into the abyss, the abyss stares back into you."
-"I just wanted to hone razors, Dr.-really!"
-"Now try to stay calm, Mr. SRP man. You know we don't allow sharp objects in here. Maybe you can make something with the popsicle sticks during craft time."

I can concur to what the strop can do. None of my edges will pass the HHT till after a strop progression. I've calibrated on my wife's hair, my hair, and guard hairs from both of my cats. Mostly my wife's, and my gray hairs.

Once stroped, the hair only needs to touch the edge and it pops freely without bending the hair, nor any ringing from the blade.

As I've said before, the edge doesn't end on the hone,..... it stops at the strop. And yes, shampoos and conditioner's make a huge difference, as well as hair types. Its relative to why certain finishing hones work for some and not others. ( keen VS very keen )

Jerry knows what I mean, I've worked with him on finding his optimal edge for some time. Even sent him an edge that was, too keen. He didn't believe it was so, but does now.

HHT to me is just a test to the edge from its toe to heel, if I get the same results the entire length of the edge, then comes the shave test, the truest of tests.

Originally Posted by Gasman

Guess that would give someone an idea. But ive seen close-up pick of DE blade edges that look scarry toothy. As I said. It was only a thought.
BTW, I bought some hair extensions for my testing. Works so much better than the stuff I got from my granddaughter.

Jerry

For most men, the beard hairs are a lot more coarse than head hairs. As we age, our beards often become even more coarse. Thus, the hair from your granddaughter is likely to be too fine to be an accurate predictor of shave ready for your beard. Perhaps, the hair extension you purchased is coarser so it works better.

I do not do the HHT, but do an AHT. My arm hairs seem to be thicker than my head hair. However, even at that I need to get an edge sharp enough to pop arm hair about 1/2" above skin level in order to get a great shave. That is why everyone needs to calibrate their test method for their own beard.

Just some thoughts to add...

You need to always use the same hair - hair extensions are a good source of hair. It needs to be good quality and clean.

Root-in tests differently than root-out.

You can’t compare the sharpness of edges generated by different methods very well. That means you can’t tell if a jnat edge is sharper than a thuri edge is sharper than a coti edge is sharper than a DE edge (most of which are coated these days).

You can usually tell if the edge is improving with the same general kind of progression, say synthetic even of different brands.

I like to use HHT as a final bevel set test at 4-5k. I do a half strop, 10 canvas/20 leather and the hair should cut cleanly and easily all along the edge. You can test every mm.

Practice helps, just like any other test.

When I use an Arm Hair test to check an edge across the blade, it is a compass, a quick test to tell if I am headed in the right direction.

I also use, TPT, (Thumb Pad Test) and most telling for me, a visual test, a look at the stria on the bevel, does it match the grit, and that stria reach the edge fully, especially at the heel and toe. And then look straight down on the edge, for shiny reflections.

All tests are quick, and easy to perform, if an edge is passing all 3 tests, chances are it will shave just fine.

None of the test individually are conclusive, only the shave test is conclusive. It will shave well or very well. Occasionally I will go back to the strop or hones if I feel I can squeak a bit more from an edge.

I equate all test to a Dyno. All race cars go on the Dyno to fine tune the best performance from the motor. But the best performing motor does not always win the race. If the Dyno was definitive, there would be no need for the Race, the Dyno would be the arbiter.

The goal is the race, the Dyno is just a test. For us the goal is the shave, sharpness counts but absolute, maximum hair popping sharpness is not the goal. One can easily make an edge so sharp it will exfoliate a layer of skin and is uncomfortable.

But to answer your question, “Is it possible to have such a fine straight edge that its no longer toothy enough to pass an HHT?”

No, all grit will leave stria, it must, or it will not cut, and all stria will leave a “serrated” edge. A true HHT should be a push cut, not a slice. A very sharp blade should pop a hair, much like a knife pops a watermelon.

Sharp is easy, sharp and comfortable is difficult. It is said the difference between a good and great edge is about 2% more. In the abys is the 2% and each of us must find it, because we are all using different stones, razors, strops and technique. What works for me, may not reach the 2% for you.

Great replys.

I agree with about every comment. Glad to know my thoghts on this are on the rght track.

Originally Posted by Euclid440

When I use an Arm Hair test to check an edge across the blade, it is a compass, a quick test to tell if I am headed in the right direction.

I also use, TPT, (Thumb Pad Test) and most telling for me, a visual test, a look at the stria on the bevel, does it match the grit, and that stria reach the edge fully, especially at the heel and toe. And then look straight down on the edge, for shiny reflections.

All tests are quick, and easy to perform, if an edge is passing all 3 tests, chances are it will shave just fine.

None of the test individually are conclusive, only the shave test is conclusive. It will shave well or very well. Occasionally I will go back to the strop or hones if I feel I can squeak a bit more from an edge.

I equate all test to a Dyno. All race cars go on the Dyno to fine tune the best performance from the motor. But the best performing motor does not always win the race. If the Dyno was definitive, there would be no need for the Race, the Dyno would be the arbiter.

The goal is the race, the Dyno is just a test. For us the goal is the shave, sharpness counts but absolute, maximum hair popping sharpness is not the goal. One can easily make an edge so sharp it will exfoliate a layer of skin and is uncomfortable.

But to answer your question, “Is it possible to have such a fine straight edge that its no longer toothy enough to pass an HHT?”

No, all grit will leave stria, it must, or it will not cut, and all stria will leave a “serrated” edge. A true HHT should be a push cut, not a slice. A very sharp blade should pop a hair, much like a knife pops a watermelon.

Sharp is easy, sharp and comfortable is difficult. It is said the difference between a good and great edge is about 2% more. In the abys is the 2% and each of us must find it, because we are all using different stones, razors, strops and technique. What works for me, may not reach the 2% for you.

Marty-Have you ever been any kind of teacher? You have a way of boiling potentially confusing or complicated issues down to their bare essence that seems rare even in teachers. On any given topic, you seem to nail it in 1 post.

Marty's a straight to the point, kinda guy. Don't beat around the bush, you only got time to do it right, not twice, the ugly truth, kinda guy. IMHO.

Originally Posted by outback

I can concur to what the strop can do. None of my edges will pass the HHT till after a strop progression. I've calibrated on my wife's hair, my hair, and guard hairs from both of my cats. Mostly my wife's, and my gray hairs.

Once stroped, the hair only needs to touch the edge and it pops freely without bending the hair, nor any ringing from the blade.

As I've said before, the edge doesn't end on the hone,..... it stops at the strop. And yes, shampoos and conditioner's make a huge difference, as well as hair types. Its relative to why certain finishing hones work for some and not others. ( keen VS very keen )

Jerry knows what I mean, I've worked with him on finding his optimal edge for some time. Even sent him an edge that was, too keen. He didn't believe it was so, but does now.

HHT to me is just a test to the edge from its toe to heel, if I get the same results the entire length of the edge, then comes the shave test, the truest of tests.

A man after my own heart or +1, as they say. I have noticed on coticules, thuringians and jnats HHT before stropping= no go (or slow go) and after = effortless pass. For me, it is different with a synthetic edge. I can pass before and after stropping. It leads me to believe that the shape of an edge from a natural is different at the apex then a synthetic but that is just MY theory. Plus, as was said above, HHT root in is different then HHT root out. Much different!