1k 4k 8k

Hi all, A while ago I read about a challenge to set a bevel, and then hone with only the 4k/8K stones.

This afternoon I decided to get an old razor out of my todo drawer and give it some love.

I am not even the worlds worst bevel setter, I will need to improve a lot to even get close to the worlds worst but i did it anyway on 1K and it turned out ok but I'm not gonna show ya LOL.

Anyway, I used the 4K Norton and then the 8K. Not happy I went to 4K and then 8K again.

I decided that I should get good at honing with 8K before I go to 12K (except to refresh).

I just shaved with the razor I set the bevel on and honed up to 8K.

I am not going to pretend that it was the best shave I have ever had but I shaved, it was close but not bbs and was pretty comfortable. I lathered up with my Southern Witchcraft because I felt I needed all the help I could get :rofl2:

Maybe if I get my 12K out tomorrow I might be able to add it to my rotation. If learned anything.

Either learn to set a bevel or learn to press harder when I shave :gaah:

The biggest leap for me was getting the bevel set. It is probably the easiest to mess up and most overlooked. A piece of advice that helped me in the beginning was hone just on one side until there is a burr you can feel with your fingernail the whole way down the bevel. Then flip it over till you get the same. Then alternate to even it out. Usually I'll do at least 20 both sides. Doing it this way helped me to learn how to get the bevel even down the whole length and how to concentrate on the areas that are slower to set. I also learned that the slower to set part is not always or even usually the same on both sides. You'll find, or at least I did, that I spent less time on the mid range stones after getting the hang of bevel set.

The bevel set is everything. It's like "Do not pass go" in Monopoly. And it is a very useful exercise while learning the fundamentals of honing to see if you can shave off of a 1k bevel set (which you should be able to do, albeit maybe not very comfortably), then your 4k, your 8k like you're doing.

The 8k or its equivalent is your other gateway stone. Unless you can get a good shave off of it consistently (which was considered finished by many on here when I first started), you're wasting time on any other "finisher." Nail that, and the sky is the limit-have fun on your honing journey!

Yeah, I meant to mention the shave test on bevel set. Thanks Aaron. What some people suggest is shave on each stone. Maybe that is a good learning exercise but it seems to me that once you master the bevel set then the mid range is down hill. Now finishing is another beast to be conquered but the range should be coasting. At least that was my experience. I guess I can't speak for anyone else. I think the biggest hurdle with the mid grit stones for me was correct stroke motion. Through the last half of the 4k and all of the 8k I stroke like I'm doing it in slow motion and decrease pressure till it's almost imaginary strokes at the end. Although I actually do that at the end of bevel set also.

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Sorry, didn't mean to monologue. Just sharing

Okay, I'm probably all alone on this, but here is my experience. When I started out (making razors), all I had was the standard (or dreaded) Norton 4K/8K and a DMT 325 for flattening the Norton. Plus I used a strop after the hones. I set the bevel on the DMT 325 since I didn't have a 1k hone. Then I honed on the Norton. To be honest I couldn't comfortably shave arm hair even off of the 8k until I had stropped it. The stopping was done on linen with green chrome paste and then plain leather. The finished product gave me an acceptable shave. I used this for about 5 years.

After that I added a 1K DMT to go between the DMT 325 and the 4K Norton. This greatly cut down on my honing time on a new razor, but didn't necessarily give me a better finished product.

Then I added a 12K Shapton and now we were cooking with oil!. I could actually shave arm hair (comfortably) directly off of the stone from the 12K. Stropping after the 12K gave a great shave.

I know a lot of guys don't like the Norton 4k/8k stones, but they do work. The (325) > 1k > 4k > 8k > 12k > Linen/chrome > leather progression does seem to work well and is fairly fool proof. If I was to give a fiend a razor, I would simply include a linen/leather strop with chrome paste. If I felt that they were competent with a hone, then I would have them get a 12k Shapton to go with the strop. That's it. This should last them years if not decades. If they were buying razors off of ebay or at flea markets then I would have them get the two DMT hones as well as the Norton 4k/8k. It's tried and proven. There may be a better option than the Norton (perhaps some Shapton hones?) that would save you from having to get the 325 DMT. However, it really doesn't take long to go from absolutely zero bevel (as in a new razor that has never had a bevel set) to shaving bliss with this set up.

A A Ron said everything I had to say, and then Paul chipped in some extra thought.
If you can master the 1K bevel set, it’s all gravy from there.
I know I post this thread often, but honestly it’s the best reference picture for A bevel set that I know of.
https://sharprazorpalace.com/honing/...ggestions.html
Once I learned the loupe and how to see the bevel being properly set, my edges have been consistent and shave very well.

At some point when all the sexy new Naniwas and Shaptons came on the market, the Norton 4/8k combo hone became your Dad's old Town and Country van of hones, and definitely no longer had a seat at the cool kids' table. They also apparently had some qc issues out of their factory in Mexico, so they fell out of favor to some degree.

That said, along with the Chosera 1k, the same boring old Norton 4/8k I started with is still the foundation of my honing progression, and provides a pretty good shave in its own right given good stropping. Then the Naniwa 12k, and I'm always playing around with different naturals. Point is, I "get there" with the old reliable Norton 4/8.

Once the bevel is set it’s just polishing from there,

I have Norton 220/1K 4K/8K and a Naniwa 12k SS. Not a huge selection of different stone like a lot of you seem to have but apart from the cost I am 100% sure that owning every stone ever made will not help me 1 bit until I get the dagbern bevel right.

I'm going to start again from scratch, probably today.

I have watched loads of videos, gxgun, Job15, a chap called big nose shaver, and a guy called italian stallion. Anyway my takeaway is that although the bevel set techniques are a just a little different in all videos I saw and that there is more than 1 way to skin a cat. The techniques are all basically similar and they all make bevel setting look so simple and easy.

Well that is not my reality so I think that I am going to need to start again and bevel set either until it is done right or I don't have any razor left.

I do have a loupe but to be completely honest, I don't know what I'm looking at, obvously it's an edge but you know what I mean I'm sure.

I have marked the edge with a sharpie and have tried different strokes untill I got it all off. Circles seem to get it all off.

I have read on here about the limitations of a USB loupe/microscope but i have one that I have not used before. Maybe i should send some before bevel set, during and after pics with it?

I would love to try and shave with just a good bevel bfore I moved on, it sounds like a great way to perfect each stone before the next but at the moment, just shaving arm hair has made me sore from repeat quite firm stroking to get some hair on the blade.

Exciting when i see some arm hair shave though even if do press hard enough to hurt.

Question, if I have tried different strokes to see if I can remove the sharpie before I try anything too clever as Job15 explained in his video (unless i completely missed the point) and discover that circles seem to be the way to get the pen off the length of the blade. Do I do those same circles that are working throughout the whole progression to the exclusion of all else.

It occurs to me that if the way to get the pen off was circles and nothing else seemed to do the trick, anything but those circles won't hone the blade all the way along at any grit, am I missing something?

Anyway, would pics be worth sending, I could do a video but I'm not sure if it would help much - or maybe it would. I got excellent advice from the shaving videos i uploaded and I really improved quickly because of it.

If you are using a good progression of hones, I would then question the basics. Are you sure that you have the correct angle? Not all razors are made with the same width to thickness ratio. If the bevel angle is wrong, then you will never get it right. I've posted this before, but it is worth repeating.

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Use a set of calipers and measure the width of the blade from the cutting edge to the place where the spine will rest on the hone. Write that number down. Now divide it by 4 and write that number down. Now divide the measurement by three and write that number down. As an example. If the blade measures 0.75" wide, the two calculated numbers would be 0.1875 and 0.25 inches. This is the range that the thickness of the spine needs to measure with the tape. If the spine is more or less than that range (0.1875" - 0.25") then your bevel angle will not be correct. Adjust the layers of tape to get the spine measurement in that range (use calipers to take the measurement of the spine with tape).

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Other than that, my next thought would be that you may need to get the "feel" of the hone. You don't want to press down on the hones with the blade, but at the same time you need to keep the blade flat. I rest two fingers on the blade simply to keep the blade sitting correctly on the hone. If the blade is "rocking" (edge to spine) then you are not getting a consistent angle. Each razor has a slightly different feel. If it is truly strait or if it has a smile, will determine how to move your wrist in order to keep the blade "flat" on the hone. This is the practice part of honing.

To me it is a check list.
* Make sure the razor is honeable. Some poor quality razors simply will never get sharp. Also, some expensive razors made with "high end, fancy" steels will be darn near impossible to sharpen as well.
* Get the angle correct
* Make sure the bevel is even and consistent with a 1k
* Have a good progression of good hones
* Don't move on to the next grit until all the scratches from the previous grit are removed.

If you get those correct and it still is not working, then all that I can think of that you may be missing is the feel of the blade on the hone.

There are many many paths to the bevel set. You cannot follow all of them at the same time. I used a single presenter until I go repeatable results. Also it helped me understand better what the other presenters were saying. There are good pictures in the link I posted earlier in the thread, of what you should be seeing in your loupe.

"Other than that, my next thought would be that you may need to get the "feel" of the hone."
This to me is even more important than the visual aspect. Certainly circles are a good way to get started. But in addition to the visuals through a loupe, you should start to feel, as you remove steel all along the edge (hopefully), a gradual smoothing from rough to getting smoother and smoother. I can't emphasize enough how crucial it is that you "listen" to subtle changes your fingers and hands should be feeling as you start to lighten up once those bevel planes smooth out and come together.

On water stones, watching "the wave" is also key. You should at first be pushing the wave all along the edge-if you're not, your edge is not on the stone. I find that a sort of parabolic "windshield wiper" stroke is helpful if you're having trouble getting the whole edge on the stone. Then as you get to true bevel set, you will start undercutting that water-that is what you want. Then there are numerous tests of a truly set bevel, but you should never be pushing a razor's edge into skin or have to force it in any way to cut (sounds dangerous to me).

And if no one has already said it, you need to have a true pro-honed edge with you at all times as you're learning what it's supposed to feel like. This is both humbling and revealing, but it gives you something to shoot for (and maybe even beat at some point!).

Finally, even experienced honers can have trouble with a problem blade that we have to put down, think a bit on it, and come back later with a different approach. If one razor won't hone up for you, put it down and try a different, easier one (like a straight blade Solingen or similar). Then come at the hard one with more skills from the easier one. There are many roads to sharp!

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Originally Posted by STF

It occurs to me that if the way to get the pen off was circles and nothing else seemed to do the trick, anything but those circles won't hone the blade all the way along at any grit, am I missing something?

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This doesn't make any sense to me. If the bevel is in contact with the hone at the same light pressure, the direction of motion of the razor on the hone shouldn't matter with regard to removing the sharpie marking. Circles are a bit faster at a given pressure in removing steel, but that's a different topic.

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On water stones, watching "the wave" is also key.

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That is very true. I forgot to even mention that, but it is one reason I like the Norton. The water pattern gives a good visible feedback. This is more of the "art" of honing verses the "science" of honing. The science of honing would be to use the man made hones that are consistent and proven, along with tools like calipers and loupes. Find the proven tools and techniques and repeat it every time. I used to work in manufacturing facilities and that was one of my jobs. Find the best operators who make a good product by "feel" and standardize what they do into repeatable steps that everyone could follow.

The art of honing would be to use a single natural stone and do it all with that single stone based on feel, experience and skill. My approach to honing (and life in general I guess) is to combine a little of both art and science where they make sense. I don't think that you can totally eliminate the art side of it though. Each blade is different, especially if dealing with vintage used razors, and they require judgement calls based on skill and experience. Besides, if it was as easy as ordering hones X,Y and Z from Amazon to get the perfect edge every time, it would take all the fun out of it. Life without art is boring.

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Originally Posted by bluesman7

This doesn't make any sense to me. If the bevel is in contact with the hone at the same light pressure, the direction of motion of the razor on the hone shouldn't matter with regard to removing the sharpie marking. Circles are a bit faster at a given pressure in removing steel, but that's a different topic.

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Agreed. It makes me think that the circular motion is causing the blade to rock back and forth and not stay flat on the hone. Giving the false impression of a "complete" hone.

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Originally Posted by bluesman7

This doesn't make any sense to me. If the bevel is in contact with the hone at the same light pressure, the direction of motion of the razor on the hone shouldn't matter with regard to removing the sharpie marking. Circles are a bit faster at a given pressure in removing steel, but that's a different topic.

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I understand what you're saying and can't really agreee or disagree because I don't have the practical experience yet but it does make sense to me on the face of it. I think the point was that the whole bevel wasn't touching the stone, I am watching a youtube video by Joseph, Job15 - right now coincidentally and I can see quite clearly how when the edge is marked with a sharpie and his particular strokes don't remove the pen from the whole length of the blade, by simply changing to a different stroke (x stroke in this example) the pen was removed completely, it seems that different basic strokes are sometimes enough to allow the whole blade to touch the stone.

That looks much easier than some other techniques I have seen and Job15 has a really good teaching style, if I still lived in the smoke instead of moving to Canada I might have asked him for private tuition I reckon.

Course, I might be completely misunderstanding, but I'm the only one to blame for that. Bevel setting seems to be a huge subject and seems it can get very complicated.

I am a martial artist as I know a couple of others here are. When I started, a particular technique or a kata was explained and the meanings of the techniques where made clear to me. As I moved up through the grades those same tecniques where shown to have much more advanced meanings that I could not have understood earlier.

I think that honing is very similar in as much as I my undrstanding of why I am learning a certain way as someone new at it will be worlds away from the understanding of the advanced grade honers.

You’re rocking the razor like a rolling x stroke when you’re doing circles it sounds like.

One thing I really admire about you Steve is that you are probably the most enthusiastic person that I know about this particular subject. You're certainly all in and in the end that will pay off for you but it may be that you're enthusiasm is working against you somewhat. As Rezdog said it's probably best to listen to one teacher so you don't cloud your mind with too many things as far as videos go at least. I know there's been a lot of advice given in this thread and I think you're probably better at it than you think but a thing that really worked for me was slowing down my stroke to the point, as I said before, that it is almost in slow motion. Think of it like tai chi: almost ridiculously deliberate. What may be happening is that you're doing fine and then one bad stroke spoils all the good work. I personally struggled with that...still do sometimes. Maybe we all do. It occurrs to me that maybe the trick is KNOWING when you made a mis-stroke and going back to correct it. Hopefully it's not on a finisher. It has happened to me and I had to start over almost from scratch. That really bites the big one so especially past 4k I stroke like a sloth.
In fairness I don't have $100,000 in stones like some people here probably do but I think Norton combo stones are unfairly disregarded. They may not be a sexy stone but I have found that if I keep mine clean, keep them flat and chamfered and sufficiently soaked and subsequently dried they work just fine. One thing I have noticed is that you have to use the flattening stone properly or it will over lap the hone so that it is either too rough or has rough patches.

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Originally Posted by PaulFLUS

you are probably the most enthusiastic person that I know about this particular subject. You're certainly all in and in the end that will pay off for you but it may be that you're enthusiasm is working against you somewhat. As Rezdog said it's probably best to listen to one teacher so you don't cloud your mind with too many things as far as videos go at least. I know there's been a lot of advice given in this thread and I think you're probably better at it than you think but a thing that really worked for me was slowing down my stroke to the point, as I said before, that it is almost in slow motion.

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Hi Paul. very kind words, I'm not sure I deserve them but I will admit that if I decide to get involved with something, whether it's straight shaving or learning to hone I only have two speeds, Stop or completely obsessed.

I want to thank you again for the 4 razors you sent me a few months ago to practice honing on. You told me that it didn't matter if I stuffed them because they were just practice razors and nothing special.

I have to disagree respectfully. I love my razors, including those and if I can't shave with them I can at least polish them and admire them.

Actually, I have been doing my math and the way I see it, with decent stropping a razor should shave well for at least 25-30 shaves, probably more but my point is. I have 14 razors in my rotation and shave everyday so I use each razor every two weeks, twice a month.

That means I am using each razor about 24 times a year so I don't think it would be unreasonable to say that I could refresh my razors annually, in October in my case.

The reason I went through the math is that I only have what I would consider shave ready razors in my rotation. Now you sent me 4 practice razors Paul. I had completely fortgotten that 2 of them are shave ready and in my rotation so I did successfully set those bevels and hone them, to my satisfaction at least.

I'm not for a minute suggesting that they are Outback sharp but I do get bbs on every razor in my rotation including those two.

The two razors I am struggling with are razors you sent and the no name round point you did warn me about being a bitch. The other is a slight smile.

I'm getting a great shave of a $5 chinese razor I bought to play with and bevel set/hone and no one could have been more suprised than I at how well it turned out so I am obviously doing something right.

Conventional wisdom and some of the guys here that I really respect have advised me to put the hard ones away for now and try again when I have more experience, that is great advice and will certainly save a lot of heartache.

Unfortunately everytime i see those two razors they laugh at me so I'm gonna hone them even if i have to grind them down until I can make them into screwdrivers.

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Originally Posted by STF

...so I'm gonna hone them even if i have to grind them down until I can make them into screwdrivers.

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Nah, you'll do fine. Just take your time and practice honing "mindfulness." Just think of it as another stair in the flight.

Some razors are difficult to hone because of a twist in the blade or an improperly shaped spine.

I had one of those that I simply could not get a proper bevel set on. The folks here suggested using extra tape in the places on the spine that matched the parts of the blade that were not contacting the hone. That created a secondary bevel to correct for the nasty original one.

It worked. The razor has one ugly, inconsistent looking bevel, but it now shaves well along the entire length of the edge. It is not aesthetically pleasing to look at, but it is in the rotation.

Post some pictures of the troublesome blades so the folks that know can see what the problem might be.

Sometimes, it’s the razor and not the honer. The experienced honers know how to identify a blade that has a problem and can suggest how to correct for that.

Circles remove metal quickly because you are multi- directional honing. Cut a valley, then cut off the hill and create a new valley in a different direction.

Circles work well to set a bevel where some correction (metal removal) is needed or at the beginning of a new finer stone in a progression to quickly remove the bulk of previous deep stria.

But the finish work is in single directional strokes, straight or X. An X stroke will hone the whole edge, especially if the edge and spine are not straight, (flat). A straight stroke will only hone the high spots, if the razor is curved, it will hone the heel and toe on one side and middle on the other.

Single directional strokes refine the edge by getting all the stria going in the same direction and making a straighter edge.

If you are having issues, ink the bevel and see where you are making contact. Then adjust your stroke until you are consistently and evenly removing metal and honing to the edge.

The maker of the stone does not matter all that much, I have most of the good stones available and lately have been honing on a 1 & 6k King and finishing on Naturals. A $20 King will set a bevel just fine.

If you are having a problem with a razor, post some pics of the razor. Both sides. It may have issues you are overlooking.

I have a question and hope you guys can help.

Full disclosure, I'm playing with a Gold Dollar. Yes, I know but it's cheap and I can practice everything from honing to shaving , stropping, even re-scaling for less than $10.

Anyway, my questions.

I have ground the shoulder a bit so that the heel touches the stones. I am spending an inordinate length of time setting the bevel on a 1K Norton, but then I always spend a serious long time doing it on everything.

I got the GD to shave arm hair against the skin but decided to take it further before I move to 4K.

The edge went from shaving arm hair to less sharp.

Is it possible that even on 1K a bevel will actually become less sharp (go backwards) if it is over-honed?

What is the recommended way to make a straight edge smile, my guess is that a person would do extra work on the heel and toe then hone toward a smile even though there isn't one yet.

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The edge went from shaving arm hair to less sharp.

Is it possible that even on 1K a bevel will actually become less sharp (go backwards) if it is over-honed?

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If there is a burr, it will not shave arm hair (at least not mine anyways). You may have removed enough metal to re-create a burr that needs to be removed.

Tough to say... could be chipping, could be technique. Depending on the steel, tempering, and geometry, it may never get right. Do you have access to photos?

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Originally Posted by HungeJ0e

Tough to say... could be chipping, could be technique. Depending on the steel, tempering, and geometry, it may never get right. Do you have access to photos?

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Thank you for trying to help.

I killed the edge and started again. No problems and I had a good shave with it.

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Originally Posted by STF

Thank you for trying to help.

I killed the edge and started again. No problems and I had a good shave with it.

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Good to hear! You're on your way man... it's all fun and games from here.

Seriously, my enjoyment with a straight went way up when I started honing myself. Getting a very good shaveable edge takes maybe a solid week of playing around with stones (with some breaks when you get frustrated).

Getting an incredible shaving edge takes a lifetime...

I have a question, how do you guys make a razor smile, I assume it's done on a hone.

I like smiles, I want smiles - miles of smiles.

There is a copy of an old barbers manual, think it's on here somewhere. It shows the technique, but it's fairly advanced. The alternative is to buy one. Saitos and the old smiling wedges are a treat to shave with.

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Originally Posted by PaulFLUS

The biggest leap for me was getting the bevel set. It is probably the easiest to mess up and most overlooked. A piece of advice that helped me in the beginning was hone just on one side until there is a burr you can feel with your fingernail the whole way down the bevel. Then flip it over till you get the same. Then alternate to even it out. Usually I'll do at least 20 both sides. Doing it this way helped me to learn how to get the bevel even down the whole length and how to concentrate on the areas that are slower to set. I also learned that the slower to set part is not always or even usually the same on both sides. You'll find, or at least I did, that I spent less time on the mid range stones after getting the hang of bevel set.

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That is IMHO the best way for a beginner to set a bevel. I still use the burr method when I am honing more than one razor in a sitting. It's fast and sure. Many howls of outrage over this but honing is more about results than popularity or conformity. In due time I think a beginner SHOULD learn to just hone his way into a bevel without deliberately raising a burr, because it challenges his powers of observation, not because it saves a few molecules of steel in a one-time-only operation. Meanwhile, the burr method just WORKS.

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Originally Posted by STF

Thank you for trying to help.

I killed the edge and started again. No problems and I had a good shave with it.

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It's like they said. You honed enough with enough pressure to eventually raise a burr. You can clean up an edge without killing it, through several different techniques. Probably the easiest is to make a little slurry and use very light and very short x strokes to hone it off. Talking maybe 2" of travel along the stone, but the normal amount of sideways travel across the stone. Light pressure is the key. Heavy pressure makes a burr. Very light pressure can prevent or even remove it. Also a bit of slurry really helps. It will retard peak sharpness but it really clobbers a burr or fin or wire edge.

You can also add a few Pull Strokes every so often. A pull stroke is where your razor is laying on the hone normally, but instead of traveling edge leading toward the far end of the hone, you pull it by the tang directly toward the side of the hone. In other words, the direction of travel is parallel to the edge. It's like you are wiping the razor on a towel. Travel distance should only be about a half inch maybe 3/4", and pressure very light. It will seem like you are not accomplishing anything but you are. You are clearing the edge. Do a stroke on one side, flip and do the other side of the razor and there's a lap. It is amazing what 5 laps will do for you. This does often slightly round the apex, so you follow a final set of these with another set of maybe a dozen of the very lightest regular x strokes you can manage, to peak it back up a bit. You end up with a very clean edge and under a USB microscope the difference is dramatic.

So, back to your bevel. When the bevel has come in well, it is good to finish it with ever decreasing pressure before moving up into the progression. You can also add a few drops of dishwashing liquid to the honing water, to add a bit of buffering and reduce the contact intensity. This makes for shallower scratches.

I know that this infuriates some guys to see this posted yet again, but honing in hand is a great enabler when it comes to reducing pressure to a dead minimum. Particularly for a beginner. In the initial stages of setting the bevel, very light pressure is not needed. If a lot of steel has to come off, then substantial pressure will gitter done. You just want to tone down the pressure as the bevel comes in fully. Then that edge is nice and thin, it is extremely flexible, and pressure will flex it up, putting more honing action just behind the edge, weakening it even more, allowing more upward flex, and so on.

It sounds like you are getting a handle on this. The last bevel you set, probably would be a good candidate for the progression. If you achieved a good bevel along the entire edge, it doesn't matter how wonky the blade WAS... you have corrected it. It will now hone up just fine. If this is a Gold Dollar or Gold Monkey, the steel is up to it, and 99% of the difficulty is behind you once you have a proven bevel.

What the others said about circle strokes. It is natural to rock the pressure a bit between spine and edge when doing circle or back-and-forth winshield wiper strokes. Plain edge leading x strokes are generally needed for leaving that bevel nice and flat and the apex nice and tight. When you do the sharpie test using regular laps, where DOES the ink disappear? Your razor has to be making contact somewhere.

Shaving arm hair easily? Okay then, I say it is ready to hit a LAPPED 4k stone, or film. It may surprise you how well a 4k edge can shave your face. Especially if you ensure that all 1k scratches are completely honed away by the 4k, and you finish the stage with plenty of extremely light laps. Adding dish soap or using shave lather helps even more, by creating a buffering layer between stone and blade. It makes for a shallower scratch pattern at the expense of lots of extra laps. If you can shave off the 4k then it is probably ready to repeat the same on the 8k.

You are quite correct in that it is not much use to take it to a 12k if it won't shave off the 8k. The 8k stage is a good place to stop and evaluate your results and your improvement. Bevel set through 8k will likely only be done once for as long as you own the razor. You will get plenty of practice with the 12k or equivelant lapping film.

There was a time when an 8k Norton was considered a finisher. And after all, it is finer grit than most barber hones. Granted, quality has gone down considerably in that brand, but I dare say it is still probably up to it if you lap the stone down from its typically inconsistent surface.

You are definitely getting this. I would not be a bit surprised to read that you had a wonderful shave a couple days from now. Hang in there.

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Originally Posted by STF

I have a question, how do you guys make a razor smile, I assume it's done on a hone.

I like smiles, I want smiles - miles of smiles.

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All of mine tend to pick up a hint of a smile because I tend to use a rolling X stroke instead of just a plain X. You start with a little extra pressure toward the heel and sort of lift the blade up to guide pressure toward the toe as you progress through the stroke. focusing a little more pressure toward the heel and tow results in a smile curve on the blade.