Thread: Dovo’s honing method

Originally Posted by gssixgun

If it were that simple then why are the "Masters" in Solingen not able to do it ???

If honers in Solingen have been using convex stones for the amount of time we are told, which I have no reason to immediately doubt, there have obviously been many razors made in the past that were honed on such stones without the issue of frowning.

Originally Posted by Steve56

Yes, that’s true, but you don’t need a convex hone to do that.

They’re honing the cr@p out of the middle of the razor; look at the black swarf on the stone. Most of it is in the middle, that’s where most of the honing is happening, not at the heel or toe or the edges if the hone would be as black as the middle.

You can overhone the middle of a razor on a flat hone that is sufficiently narrow.

I think it is the convexity down the length of the hone which provides the supposed primary advantage of using such a hone, as it theoretically creates a concave bevel and thus a theoretically lower bevel angle. The left to right convex is to apparently account for the fact that no razor is truly straight (theoretically) and so being able to isolate various areas of the blade is an additional advantage.

Whether these theoretical advantages, turn into real world advantages that are perceptible to the end user seems to be the bone of contention. I'm not intuitively convinced but I'm keeping an open mind.

Originally Posted by thp001

- It does seem that the convex hone is an old idea and the people in Solingen obviously feel as if there is some utility to it. This apparent utility would remain regardless of whether the edges they produce are shave ready.

- Solingen is capable of producing non-frowned razors on convex hones as evidenced by past razor production.

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Originally Posted by thp001

If honers in Solingen have been using convex stones for the amount of time we are told, which I have no reason to immediately doubt, there have obviously been many razors made in the past that were honed on such stones without the issue of frowning.

Really ??? Where is this info, so far we see one source making that claim, you would think there would be old manuals explaining how the old "Masters" convexed their hones to achieve this edge
You would think that Escher etc: would have convexed their rocks but hmmmmmm we don't see that now do we

Ain't seeing a multitude of old barber hones convexed to achieve this out on eBay either, nor do we see the idea of it pointed out in the Barber's Manuals

I am not being snarky I am just pointing out the fallacies here,,, you made assumptions without proof

Originally Posted by thp001

You can overhone the middle of a razor on a flat hone that is sufficiently narrow.

Only if you can't hone correctly

Originally Posted by gssixgun

Really ??? Where is this info, so far we see one source making that claim, you would think there would be old manuals explaining how the old "Masters" convexed their hones to achieve this edge
You would think that Escher etc: would have convexed their rocks but hmmmmmm we don't see that now do we

Ain't seeing a multitude of old barber hones convexed to achieve this out on eBay either

I am not being snarky I am just pointing out the fallacies here,,, you made assumptions without proof

I'm not making any assumptions. Literally almost every post I've made has words like theoretical in it. The assumptions are made by others that I am referencing in my posts. I have already stated that I am not entirely convinced that the convex hone creates sufficient concavity in the bevel to be meaningful, but maybe I am wrong. We're here to learn right?

Originally Posted by gssixgun

Only if you can't hone correctly

Which is a distinct issue in itself aside from the use of the convex hone. Maybe the convex hone makes it easier to cause a frowning blade for someone who isn't a great honer. Seems entirely possible. That also doesn't preclude the reasonable assertion that someone who is good at honing can create a flat edge with a convex hone.

Originally Posted by thp001

As far as the convex hones go I have a few observations:

- Any hone, flat, convex or concave, can either fail or succeed in producing a 'shave ready' edge. People hone edges, not stones.

- It does seem that the convex hone is an old idea and the people in Solingen obviously feel as if there is some utility to it. This apparent utility would remain regardless of whether the edges they produce are shave ready.

- Solingen is capable of producing non-frowned razors on convex hones as evidenced by past razor production.

- By my calculations, the amount of concavity imparted to the edge bevel from a convex hone would appear to be extremely small.

I guess I misunderstood your idea of "Observations"

Originally Posted by thp001

Which is a distinct issue in itself aside from the use of the convex hone. Maybe the convex hone makes it easier to cause a frowning blade for someone who isn't a great honer. Seems entirely possible. That also doesn't preclude the reasonable assertion that someone who is good at honing can create a flat edge with a convex hone.

And yet here we are back to the fact Dovo masters that hone for a living can't do it.. See how that worked

That means one of two things neither are good

The guys that hone for a Living at these factories SUCK at it
or
The Convex hone premise is flawed

you chose

Originally Posted by gssixgun

I guess I misunderstood your idea of "Observations"

We're just talking about rocks man.

I think you're reading my responses in an uncharitable fashion.

I've been respectful and kept an open mind throughout.

Any assertions (ie, that the convex hone has historicity to it) are not MY assertions, but those of others that I am relaying. I have no immediate reason to think those people are misinforming.

Originally Posted by thp001

Any assertions (ie, that the convex hone has historicity to it) are not MY assertions, but those of others that I am relaying. I have no immediate reason to think those people are misinforming.

That is a problem, See that means you are making statements without first hand knowledge