Thread: Dovo’s honing method

Originally Posted by outback

Some of us could hone on cylindrical shaped hones. But at what cost, and why.!? I see no benefit, either, unless the blade is serrated.

It's all about the theoretical advantage versus the real world benefits. Maybe the people at Dovo are very focused on the supposed theoretical advantages and just assume that translates to real world ones. They could be right or wrong, no one knows. This is entirely distinct from the OP's original complaint of frowning and non shave readiness, which can happen on any hone regardless of convexity. It has been posited that the convex hone may make it easier to cause a frown, seems a reasonable proposition. But Dovo have obviously been using the convex hone for a while, so you would assume the honers would be trained to account for this. There could be other factors. I feel peoples personal animosities are getting in the way of separating out all these issues.

Originally Posted by thp001

It's all about the theoretical advantage versus the real world benefits. Maybe the people at Dovo are very focused on the supposed theoretical advantages and just assume that translates to real world ones. They could be right or wrong, no one knows..

Again Speak for yourself... You don't know
And if the people at Dovo haven't figured it out by testing a few edges then they deserved the B/K
Spending money on a machine to test Shave Ready when it simply takes a few test shaves is just about dumb


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Originally Posted by thp001

It has been posited that the convex hone may make it easier to cause a frown, seems a reasonable proposition. But Dovo have obviously been using the convex hone for a while, so you would assume the honers would be trained to account for this. There could be other factors. I feel peoples personal animosities are getting in the way of separating out all these issues.

Ya Think ??? just how many years do you suppose that takes ???

I mean come on you can't see the issue here ???

Claims it is a better edge
Claims it is easier to hone with

BUT

The "Experts" using it day in day out for YEARS can't get a razor to shave and can't help but create a frown...

Yeah that doesn't hold water

PS: That isn't personal "Animosity" that is just common sense

Originally Posted by gssixgun

Again Speak for yourself... You don't know
And if the people at Dovo haven't figured it out by testing a few edges then they deserved the B/K

I already stated earlier that the amount of concavity imparted on the bevel was imperceptibly small. Could anyone, given all other variables equal apart from hone convexity, feel a difference? That however does not preclude and actual cutting advantage to the concave bevel.

You're mixing up the debate over the supposed advantages of the convex stone with the whole shave readiness thing. They're distinct from each other.

A razor may or may not be 'shave ready' regardless of the hone used.

A convex stone, and thus a concave bevel, may or may not have an advantage over a v bevel.

If the convex stone does impart an advantage, it still may not be perceptible to the end user.

I can't see what anyone could disagree with here.

No offence but you seem to be getting into a bit of a tizz over this, again we're just talking about rocks. This should be fun and interesting man.

Originally Posted by thp001

I already stated earlier that the amount of concavity imparted on the bevel was imperceptibly small. Could anyone, given all other variables equal apart from hone convexity, feel a difference? That however does not preclude and actual cutting advantage to the concave bevel.

You're mixing up the debate over the supposed advantages of the convex stone with the whole shave readiness thing. They're distinct from each other.

A razor may or may not be 'shave ready' regardless of the hone used.

A convex stone, and thus a concave bevel, may or may not have an advantage over a v bevel.

If the convex stone does impart an advantage, it still may not be perceptible to the end user.

I can't see what anyone could disagree with here.

No offence but you seem to be getting into a bit of a tizz over this, again we're just talking about rocks. This should be fun and interesting man.

How do you know, where is your proof ???

Please show us you are again making statements without any proof, and the claim of "Jarrod Says" doesn't hold water here he could not back it up either


Also this "No offence but you seem to be getting into a bit of a tizz over this, again we're just talking about rocks. This should be fun and interesting man." is a Jarrod move

Don't start with the Victim flag, because you are being called out to back up your claims, I mean it is bad enough you are repeating his junk science please don't start repeating his whining

Originally Posted by gssixgun

I mean come on you can't see the issue here ???

Claims it is a better edge
Claims it is easier to hone with

BUT

The "Experts" using it day in day out for YEARS can't get a razor to shave and can't help but create a frown...

Yeah that doesn't hold water

You're rolling all the claims into one. Here's how I see the claims:

1. Given all things equal, the a razor honed on a convex stone creates a better edge for shaving than one formed on a flat stone. This is either true or false.

2. A convex stone has certain advantages over a flat hone (honing warped razors, isolating areas of the edge, etc) These advantages are either real or illusory.

3. Dovo honers are frowning their edges BECAUSE they use convex hones. This would imply that if Dovo switched to flat hones, all else being equal, they wouldn't frown their razors or wouldn't frown as many. This is either true or false.

4. Dovo honers can't create shave ready edges and the convex hone may be culpable in this.

“Why do I always have a feeling Jarrod of the superior shave is partaking in these convex stone honing debates under random nicknames on different forums.”

Because he is?

Jerrod is the only person claiming that any razor had been hone on a convex stone to produce a concave bevel.

In hundreds of years, no-one has ever made this claim and hundreds of years of German razor making did not produce a frowning razor or a concave bevel.

It is Jarrod “look at me” BS, so he can sell stones and a bent grinding plate. For hundreds of years razor honers have tried every trick to produce a better edge, stones from all over the world, spent hundreds and thousands of dollars for rocks, all manner of grit from soot to diamonds for paste.

And Jarrod was the only person trusted, to lift the veil of honing’s biggest secret, when the Grand Old World Master Grinder revealed the secret to him and him alone. He probably whispered, “And don’t tell anyone”.

More importantly, if that is the "secret" of the ultimate honing edge mastery and is what Dovo is using, ITS NOT WORKING.

Nice try Jarrod, Actually, I feel sorry for you that you are that desperate and dishonest.

Originally Posted by gssixgun

How do you know, where is your proof ???

Please show us you are again making statments without any proof, and the claim of "Jarrod Says" doesn't hold water here he could not back it up either

My proof is that I calculated the distance of the saggita from a chord which measured 0.5mm across a wheel that had a diameter of 7600mm (25ft, the same kind of radius as a convex hone) The distance from the saggita to the chord was something like 0.000008mm. That would imply a minute concavity to the edge bevel.

You keep insinuating that I am defending Jarrod when in fact my calculation would actually back up your claim that the concave bevel thing has no real world impact.

I would ask you to read my posts properly before accusing me playing "Jarrod Say's".

I've stated many times in this thread that I'm not convinced of the real world effects of a concave bevel.

Originally Posted by thp001

My proof is that I calculated the distance of the saggita from a chord which measured 0.5mm across a wheel that had a diameter of 7600mm (25ft, the same kind of radius as a convex hone) The distance from the saggita to the chord was something like 0.000008mm. That would imply a minute concavity to the edge bevel.

You keep insinuating that I am defending Jarrod when in fact my calculation would actually back up your claim that the concave bevel thing has no real world impact.

I would ask you to read my posts properly before accusing me playing "Jarrod Say's".

So again a BS theory that Jarrod claimed on another forum yet no real hands on proof

Stop already

My opinion, for what it’s worth (not much, lol) is that razor honing and probably grinding folks in Germany are college students looking for a gig and beer money. Almost no one makes a career out of this any more, sorry. Straight razors are a niche market and not a career path. You aren’t going to retire from Dovo after 45 years with a pension.

There’s no longer any nobility in razor grinding/honing as evidenced by Dovo’s quality and warranty - touch it to a hone, NO SOUP FOR YOU!

Originally Posted by gssixgun

Also this "No offence but you seem to be getting into a bit of a tizz over this, again we're just talking about rocks. This should be fun and interesting man." is a Jarrod move

Don't start with the Victim flag, because you are being called out to back up your claims, I mean it is bad enough you are repeating his junk science please don't start repeating his whining

This is extremely uncharitable.

My claims actually back up your general point that a concave bevel isn't a real world advantage.