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Thread: Professionally honed but it still pulls

  1. #11
    Senior Member blabbermouth Kees's Avatar
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    IIRC the "Danascus" should not run down to the cutting edge. Most razor makers fold in a different, non-Damascus piece of steel, that will be the cutting edge.
    Plus ça change, plus c'est la même chose. Jean-Baptiste Alphonse Karr.

  2. #12
    Senior Member blabbermouth
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    I’m not seeing an even bevel along the whole edge.

    Yes, look straight down on the edge with magnification, edge facing you. With a 10-20x magnification and strong light behind you, you will be able to see microchips, sparkles.

    This is a no BS simple way to check for a fully set bevel. You can roll an edge with one swipe, it does not take much, remember you can not see the actual edge, without about 1000x magnification. Add paste and the ability to polish or destroy are increased, dramatically.

    Here is a good, old post by Toxikwaste, on how to do it. )
    RezDog and Tathra11 like this.

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  4. #13
    Senior Member blabbermouth PaulFLUS's Avatar
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    Yeah, looking at the edge does basically nothing without magnification, at least a little. Even a lighted magnifying glass with a second inner loupe will tell you a lot. You can't tell squat with the naked eye. I think the biggest part of your problem could be that wootz steel. It looks really cool and is good but if you are not experienced at forging or smithing it is a challenge. The veins of carbides can be very fickle to work an edge into. I'm admittedly out of my depth here but I do know you have to know how to work with it to get good results.
    Last edited by PaulFLUS; 12-21-2020 at 10:57 PM.
    Iron by iron is sharpened, And a man sharpens the face of his friend. PR 27:17

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    Senior Member blabbermouth tcrideshd's Avatar
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    It’s not wootz, but like a lot have said it could be lots of factors, I lean toward your hone guy being a problem, and your experience with a straight. Disposable blade ones shave differently, and yes the most important skill to learn is stropping. Just as much problems created from stropping as handing your razor to a hack to hone. Lots of things, most of us didn’t do that well on our early razors.
    “ I,m getting the impression that everyone thinks I have TIME to fix their bikes”

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    Senior Member blabbermouth bluesman7's Avatar
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    What steels did you use? How close the the finished width and thickness were you when you heat treated?
    Last edited by bluesman7; 12-21-2020 at 11:40 PM.

  7. #16
    Senior Member blabbermouth PaulFLUS's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tcrideshd View Post
    It’s not wootz,...
    Begging everyone's pardon. Reiterating the " out of my depth" part. The patterned steels still wouldn't be a place I would go for quite a while and not without lots of practice.
    Iron by iron is sharpened, And a man sharpens the face of his friend. PR 27:17

  8. #17
    Home of the Mysterious Symbol CrescentCityRazors's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LeviPrince View Post
    Hi, I made a straight razor and wasn't able to get it sharp enough. I gave it to someone to professionally hone it and he said he took it up to 12k and stropped it. I also stropped the crap out of it on a suede then leather, with chromium oxide but it still isn't comfortable to shave with. It'll clean my leg or arm no problem but it just pulls and hurts on my face, gave me a nasty cut too. Any ideas?
    If you are not pretty good at honing and you are already trying to make razors, you are kind of trying to run before you learn to walk. Or trying to play basketball before you can crawl. Something like that. That's okay, it's not a sin. But just recognize that you are at least sometimes gonna have problems with this approach.

    A wedge is an easy razor to make, but not such an easy razor to hone. I would have started with a quarter to half hollow. Of course I have a personal bias for hollowgrounds. The wedge grind is not a complete dealbreaker. And you had it rockwell tested? Or used files? Where you tested might or might not be the same hardness as the edge.

    Was your honemeister a member of this or another straight razor forum, who has been around a while? Or was he just some guy with a shingle out on the internet who says he can hone a razor? Many talk the talk, but few walk the walk. It COULD be your guy just didn't do a good job. On the other hand, you tried, first. My suspicion is that it is not the honing at fault, exactly, though your honer should have verified the edge a bit before returning it, to be fair.

    Do you have a USB microscope? Why don't you have a look at the edge at 100 or 200x, and compare to a known good edge on a known good razor? I might be wrong, but I am really feeling like your steel and particularly your HT and temper delivered unexpected results. It happens. When you are first starting, it happens a lot. Very nice looking piece of pattern welding, but pretty don't shave.

    I am also noticing the same thing as Mark, the stropping the crap out of it on suede then leather with CrOx and I wish I could say I approve, but I can't. And you should always shave without stropping when someone sends you a razor that is supposed to be shave ready. Experience the edge as it was crafted by the guy you paid to do it. Once you have stropped, that opportunity is past and gone. If it had shaved brilliantly or even just acceptably when you got it, Then, with a baseline to match, you could have stropped the crap out of it on everything you got, and you would know within a reasonable doubt that your stropping was at fault if the second shave was off. You passed up that opportunity by stropping before shaving.

    Your bevel angle doesn't look bad though TBH I have a hard time eyeballing wedges but I don't believe it is out of the envelope.

    So my first suspect is edge hardness. Second suspect, stropping. Third suspect and possible accomplice to one or more of the others, your honemeister. At this point there is likely nothing you can do about edge hardness. But take some microscope shots if you have a suitable scope, and let us see them. And you look at them good, for chipping or crumbling, or anything that just looks not quite right. You know your edge is substandard, so have a good look and see just what is so substandard about it.

    Finally you could try sending it out to one of the resident honemeisters here for another try at an edge and a second opinion on the steel and the geometry.

    Maybe next razor you make, use a single alloy, a nice easy and well known one like 1095 maybe. And scoop it out into about a half hollow. Save final grinding to finished thickness until after the quench. Do your final grinding and polishing, pin it up and hone it. Eliminate the wild cards and start from a known platform and if your first razor just doesn't work out, the second one probably will.

    And if the problem is your first razor, don't feel no way about it. It was still a noble effort and deserves a nice display.

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