Thread: Hones to start with?

Ok so my take away is use the Norton 1000k for reprofiling and buy a Norton 4000/8000k and a synthetic finisher and save the black ark. Which still leaves me with a choice to make. What finisher? Naniwa 12k or Chosera 10k, A Sharpton 10k, etc.

What ever I buy will most likely be the only one I ever have. I am a creature of habit Once I get used to something I seldom ever change.

Thanks for all the help so far. You guys
John

1K for bevel setting. If that is what you mean by reprofiling then yes.

As far as a synthetic finisher, I'd recommend the Naniwa 12k SS. It's thinner so costs less than a full-thickness stone plus you don't spend a lot of time on it so it will last forever. You can glue it to a piece of cut tile if you feel you need thicker. Then you will need some type of Diamond Plate (DMT) for Lapping your stones with. About a 320 or 400 grit plate will do. And possibly a stone holder and tray to keep the mess to a minimum while honing.

It just keeps getting better, doesn't it? Ha.

I have to agree with Euclid here. Your best gateway drug into honing is simply refreshing the edge with an easy finisher, and for stones, it doesn't get much easier than the Naniwa 12k. I have one and actually I have a full set of Naniwa Superstones, and I like them a lot. Anyway, a previously shave ready razor that has simply gone dull from normal use doesn't need anything more than a refresh with your finisher.

A proper surgical black or translucent arkie can be used as a finisher but it is not quite as simple as the Naniwa and as a beginner you really need all the advantages in your corner that you can get. I would definitely go for the Nanny. Unless...

I mostly use lapping film and incidentally lapping film is a very cheap entry into fine honing. You start with a known flat plate. That plate STAYS flat because there is no wear. The razor never touches the plate. The lapping film lays on top, stuck down by water surface tension, and provides the abrasive surface. Stones must be lapped when you get them and periodically thereafter.

I get my film from www.nanolaptech.com and it is a buck a sheet. Each sheet makes three pieces 11" long and just under 2-7/8" wide, plenty of honing real estate. Each piece hones between a dozen and two dozen razors so compared to the approximately $85 the Naniwa 12k will cost, until you have honed your razor (I am calling it 40 razors per sheet, conservatively) you will have to hone 8500 times before the Naniwa becomes cheaper than lapping film, and I don't know but I think you will wear that Naniwa slap through by the time you have honed that much. The grit you want for a refresh or for finishing out a progression is 1μ, or one micron. This is slightly finer than the 12k. There are finer grit films but you don't want them. The edge that they form can be rather uncomfortable to shave with, though the harshness can be mitigated to a degree.

Either way, you get a pretty good edge. You can make it better through the proper use of backed and lapped balsa treated with diamond paste, but it will not help you unless you start out with a sharp edge from 12k or 1μ. So work on your standard finish at one of those media and perfect your basic edge skills first. Just be aware that there are higher stages that you can take your edge to, without going into exotic naturals. I will post a tutorial on this forum one of these days but there is some info on my growleymonster.com site in my sig. There is also I think a tutorial on lapping film there, another thing I really ought to post about, on this forum.

BTW, you do have your shaving skills down pat, right? And understand how to test for sharpness?

Whatever media you choose to hone on, stick with it until you achieve a reasonable mastery of it before trying other things. Hopping around from media to media and method to method will result in a long and frustrating journey to your first good edge.

Film works, for maintaining an edge. But you will need a mid-grit stone to remove the 1k stria if you finish on 1um film and are doing full progression honing.

A King 6k is an aggressive mid grit stone that is an easy jump to 1um, and they are cheap, like $40.

The Chosera 10k is $275, the Shapton 10k is $145 Naniwia 12k super stone is $90 (thin one) $114 full size. The Chosera is too pricy for the money, Shapton’s can be chippy a fully Shapton progression is recommended. Super stones load up but make bullet proof edges.

A Naniwia 8k Snow White is $109, does not load up like a super stone is full size, aggressive and can produce a 12k near mirror bevel and edge.

Any good diamond plate will work, though many places are out of stock right now. 220 wet &dry on a flat surface, (steel cookie sheet) will work until diamond plates are back in stock. Chef Knives to Go, sells a great 400/1k plate for about $30, great for lapping.

As Jerry said forget about knife sharpening. Lots of knife guys come and go frustrated because they try to hone a razor like they sharpen knives. Two completely different things with different goals.

Tons of great honing threads and advice are available.

If you are going to hone you need imo a 1k stone. If you slip, raise the edge while honing or otherwise do things that new guys do(ive made many mistakes in the learning process). Otherwise you will take a long time to make corrections. A mid range stone (norton 4/8 is fine imo) and then get some lapping film. Dont skimp on the 1k, 90% of the work is done there. The hobby isnt cheap but you dont have to spend a bundle either, get some cheap razors to practice on, you will probably ruin a few. Fear of ruining a razor will inhibit the learning process, dont practice on a $200 razor. You will but not right out the gate. JMO.

Originally Posted by Gasman

1K for bevel setting. If that is what you mean by reprofiling then yes.

As far as a synthetic finisher, I'd recommend the Naniwa 12k SS. It's thinner so costs less than a full-thickness stone plus you don't spend a lot of time on it so it will last forever. You can glue it to a piece of cut tile if you feel you need thicker. Then you will need some type of Diamond Plate (DMT) for Lapping your stones with. About a 320 or 400 grit plate will do. And possibly a stone holder and tray to keep the mess to a minimum while honing.

It just keeps getting better, doesn't it? Ha.

I already have a couple of stone holders and a 400DMT that I use on knives so I guess it doesn't get any better than that.

Originally Posted by Euclid440

Film works, for maintaining an edge. But you will need a mid-grit stone to remove the 1k stria if you finish on 1um film and are doing full progression honing.

A King 6k is an aggressive mid grit stone that is an easy jump to 1um, and they are cheap, like $40.

The Chosera 10k is $275, the Shapton 10k is $145 Naniwia 12k super stone is $90 (thin one) $114 full size. The Chosera is too pricy for the money, Shapton’s can be chippy a fully Shapton progression is recommended. Super stones load up but make bullet proof edges.

A Naniwia 8k Snow White is $109, does not load up like a super stone is full size, aggressive and can produce a 12k near mirror bevel and edge.

Any good diamond plate will work, though many places are out of stock right now. 220 wet &dry on a flat surface, (steel cookie sheet) will work until diamond plates are back in stock. Chef Knives to Go, sells a great 400/1k plate for about $30, great for lapping.

As Jerry said forget about knife sharpening. Lots of knife guys come and go frustrated because they try to hone a razor like they sharpen knives. Two completely different things with different goals.

Tons of great honing threads and advice are available.

RE: Your first paragraph. True, that, but there is also midrange and coarse lapping film. I have gone down as far as 60μ Which I guess is around 220 grit LOL! I usually regard 15μ as a proper bevel setter, though. And I use a lot of 30μ. My mid range goes 9μ, 3μ and finally 1μ for the regular finish, then the balsa to bring it home.

But since the OP seems to have a razor that recently shaved okay, he probably only needs a refresh, and the 1μ film alone, will work just fine for that. (as would the 12k synthetic stones.)

Good point about the prices. Of what we consider "premium" synthetic finishers, the Naniwa is by far the cheapest. I can't say I have much love for the KIng combo, though, even though it is cheap as the mud it seems to be made from. The two parts of the combo swell at different rates. Even if you don't soak, if you hone a bunch of razors and the stone stays wet for long, the differential swelling can warp the stone and even cause separation. Full separation would actually probably be a good thing, I don't know. But I know it is frustrating to use those things, for me, because I know a proper 6k will make a much better middle grit edge than that slurry factory. Maybe in mid ranges that isn't really important, YMMV but I sure don't like them. Same with the Bear Moo, Sharp Pebble, and similar. Sure, a beginner on a budget might well be best served by these stones, but film works great and is still cheaper.

I have used sandpaper a lot. Usually from around 320 up to 2k grits. Sometimes coarser for a really bad frown or something. I like the red resin based papers. They seem to be less chippy and they last a long time. Honing a cheap stainless chef knife can help level off the proud grit particles and tame the scratch pattern a bit. Like film, it is an economical start. For someone with only a couple of razors, it doesn't make a lot of sense to buy coarse stones that will only be used a few times. A full sheet of sandpaper makes 3 or maybe 4 honing pieces, and just like film, the honing surface starts out and stays just as flat as whatever plate you use. Lapping stones (Or not lapping them!) is a big potential failure point in newbie honing.

Many people gave me a lot of advise on finishing stones here. One thing that made me think to posts it is that the 12K Nawina SS can warp and they have advice on preventing it.

https://sharprazorpalace.com/hones/1...tml?highlight=

I ended up with the 12K Nawina SS and it is giving me some good edges. Euclid recently pointed out that when you draw your grid on the stone to flatten it, the buildup of swarf can erase it before it is flat. So, you need to repeatedly grid and rub until the grid goes away quickly. His port is here, with a lot more information. https://sharprazorpalace.com/honing/...ml#post1937291

Originally Posted by planeden

Many people gave me a lot of advise on finishing stones here. One thing that made me think to posts it is that the 12K Nawina SS can warp.

https://sharprazorpalace.com/hones/1...tml?highlight=

I ended up with the 12K Nawina SS and it is giving me some good edges. Euclid recently pointed out that when you draw your grid on the stone to flatten it, the buildup of swarf can erase it before it is flat. So, you need to repeatedly grid and rub until the grid goes away quickly. His port is here, with a lot more information. https://sharprazorpalace.com/honing/...ml#post1937291

RIght on, about the lapping. Rinse good and repeat, for best results. Usually the second go will only take a dozen laps or less, depending on stone, pressure, and lapping media. I find that just one repeat usually does the trick but a third one won't really hurt. That one should take even less rubbing so you aren't losing a whole lot of stone. You can also use running water on your sandpaper (Assuming you are lapping on sandpaper). Or diamond plate. Whatever.

BTW there is lapping for flatness, and lapping for resurfacing. For the latter, a half dozen quick rubs on another stone will do the trick conveniently.

What are your thoughts on this(Shapton Kuromaku Traditional Pro (Yellow) Ceramic Whetstone 12000k) as a first stone for finishing. at $62.00 i had to ask.