Thread: Edge life vrs razor geometry

Originally Posted by PaulFLUS

I always use tape on every razor. How much depends on the existing angle. To help get a good measurement you can marker not only the edge but the spine. Do a couple of light strokes then measure from the very edge to the near edge of the place on the spine where the marker wore off and measure the thickness of the spine from that same spot. I usually shoot for 17°-18° as I prefer an edge to be slightly obtuse rather than acute, the thought being that it should be more durable.

Thanks. Those are really good tips. I thinks I'm still at early exploration stage. So far I can get the edge I like, acceptable durability. However, I also make mistakes you guys might never make. It's a trial and error process for me. I know what you guys are probably right but still want to try and see...

Originally Posted by DZEC

You can fix chips without wearing down the spine or losing to much metal along the edge if you raise the spine slightly off the stone while honing out the chips. With micro chips, you’ll lose almost no metal. With larger chips, you’ll minimize the amount of metal you’ll need to remove from the edge.

In my experience a diamond plate to remove small chips is kind of like using a sledgehammer to peen a razor pin. It’ll remove a lot of metal quickly, but if you don’t use a light touch, you’ll take off way more than you have to. I prefer to spend more time with a 1.5k - 2k stone and stop to check regularly with a loupe.

I save my 1k or lower grit diamond hones for my knives or to repair significant chips or other edge damage on big razors where there is enough metal that losing some metal still leaves a razor with reasonable width. Then I judge whether or not I have to modify the spine to correct the edge geometry.

I guess I confused you some how. I had to use diamond plate to fix the spines of new razors and it still took long time to get it right.

And I only used 1K stone to remove the chips on edges of those two vintages razors and I was surprised on how fast their spines worn out.

Originally Posted by mrjin

The I used a bit more pressure than my usual honing to fix those chips. It looked it was too much, also those vintage razor spines seem to be much softer than new ones.

Just double checked, One is Bengall, the other one is Kropp. For the Bengall one, had to set the bevel twice as there was a mishap and the spine lost was about 1.5mm. Not an issue really as the edge was removed about 2mm too.

For the Kropp one, the spine lost was about 0.5mm, not much but I can see the original curve is now flattened a bit

Vintage razor spines are no different than modern ones.
You need to reduce pressure on the spine. Unless you are trying to remove larger chips a 1k should be plenty.
What kind are you using?
Maybe use tape for anything on a diamond plate then reestablish without tape on 1k. Diamond leaves very deep scratches that will create problems later if they are not adressed.

Some Hints

Use tape until you leave no wear on the tape, then do as you please

The Older the razor the softer the spine in comparison to the Edge, yes it was tested on here years ago not a Theory it was proved

One layer of tape is protection, Multiple layers is correction, there is a difference

Originally Posted by gssixgun

The Older the razor the softer the spine in comparison to the Edge, yes it was tested on here years ago not a Theory it was proved

One layer of tape is protection, Multiple layers is correction, there is a difference

Can you post a link to anything?
I would like to see how it was tested.
New or older has never seemed different in spine wear to me unless you are only referring to really old W&B types.
Anything from the 40's and on seems pretty consistant hell even from the 30's on.
Definition of Vintage pending.

Have I got this right ?
You were trying to correct some warped razors by flattening the spine ?
If so, you realise that a warped razor with a flat spine is still a warped razor ?

Originally Posted by stoneandstrop

Can you post a link to anything?
I would like to see how it was tested.
New or older has never seemed different in spine wear to me unless you are only referring to really old W&B types.
Anything from the 40's and on seems pretty consistant hell even from the 30's on.
Definition of Vintage pending.

Basically anything post 1906 and Double Hollow were pretty close spine to edge. also hard to test Or as I said the older the razor the more likely the more the difference

The older Sheffield's were exactly the ones that had the most difference,
I remember back in the day having discussions out how so much wear was created on them,, all kinds of theories were put forth,

It has been 15-16 years since the tests went on but if my brain is working well tonight you might try searching some of Josh Earl's old posts.. I think you can still access them..


The biggest problems with these tape discussions is the idea that most people can hone and keep the wear even and equal,, The proof is right there on the spine that this is simply not true for most honers..
We literally have people that are Grinding the spine to Un-warp a razor this is a common occurrence now since my friend Matt introduced the idea of Tap and Wobble .. He and I disagree on this, although I am pretty sure he intended it for mostly GD razors

Simple is what simple does, Use a layer of tape to hone until you can hone without wearing the tape, then do as you please
One layer of tape is Protection Multiple layers are Correction...

Originally Posted by gssixgun

Basically anything post 1906 and Double Hollow were pretty close spine to edge. also hard to test Or as I said the older the razor the more likely the more the difference

The older Sheffield's were exactly the ones that had the most difference,
I remember back in the day having discussions out how so much wear was created on them,, all kinds of theories were put forth,

It has been 15-16 years since the tests went on but if my brain is working well tonight you might try searching some of Josh Earl's old posts.. I think you can still access them..


The biggest problems with these tape discussions is the idea that most people can hone and keep the wear even and equal,, The proof is right there on the spine that this is simply not true for most honers..
We literally have people that are Grinding the spine to Un-warp a razor this is a common occurrence now since my friend Matt introduced the idea of Tap and Wobble .. He and I disagree on this, although I am pretty sure he intended it for mostly GD razors

Simple is what simple does, Use a layer of tape to hone until you can hone without wearing the tape, then do as you please
One layer of tape is Protection Multiple layers are Correction...

For sure, the really old ones could show some difference hence the vintage comment.
For me 90 years is certainly vintage but they are pretty consistant from the age bracket I stated.
I have always advocated the same for learning - start with tape and learn, then remove.
I believe its the best advice one can give to someone new, assuming goemetry is good of course.

Originally Posted by stoneandstrop

Vintage razor spines are no different than modern ones.
You need to reduce pressure on the spine. Unless you are trying to remove larger chips a 1k should be plenty.
What kind are you using?
Maybe use tape for anything on a diamond plate then reestablish without tape on 1k. Diamond leaves very deep scratches that will create problems later if they are not adressed.

Thanks, but diamond plate was used to fix the spine as 1K stone was too slow and they never caused an issue. The 1k stone was Naniwa Kurouto, which did not seems to do much on those Dovos but was super fast on the two vintages, despite I pressed lighter.

I was just surprised to how fast Kurouto was on those vintages and that's why I asked if those vintage steels are different. They look much softer than recent ones to me.

Originally Posted by gssixgun

Some Hints

Use tape until you leave no wear on the tape, then do as you please

The Older the razor the softer the spine in comparison to the Edge, yes it was tested on here years ago not a Theory it was proved

One layer of tape is protection, Multiple layers is correction, there is a difference

I was right then. Such thing would perfectly explain why I struggled to fix the spines of new ones even on diamond plates but thinned vintage spines much more than anticipated on a Naniwa Kurouto 1K.