Thread: Yellow Coticule vs Chinese 12k. Who has both?

I'm always evaluating new stones to find out if there's anything better out there for our purposes and to see if there is perhaps a stone that may not be suitable for straight razors but good for other tools. I have the Chinese stone, have used it, and decided not to carry it in my lineup of stones.

I think you should try a coticule and see the difference for yourself.

Originally Posted by Howard

I'm always evaluating new stones to find out if there's anything better out there for our purposes and to see if there is perhaps a stone that may not be suitable for straight razors but good for other tools. I have the Chinese stone, have used it, and decided not to carry it in my lineup of stones.

Howard, I am curious about what specific factor(s) you based your decision on. Was it the lack of sharpness/smoothness of the edge that it created, the relatively slow cutting speed, the lack of feel/feedback of the stone, the fact that they can easily be purchased from Woodcraft for only $29.99, or something else? I have used this stone on several razors and I was very impressed with its performance just as I have been with the nice coticules that I purchased from you.

David

Originally Posted by heavydutysg135

Howard, I am curious about what specific factor(s) you based your decision on. Was it the lack of sharpness/smoothness of the edge that it created, the relatively slow cutting speed, the lack of feel/feedback of the stone, the fact that they can easily be purchased from Woodcraft for only $29.99, or something else? I have used this stone on several razors and I was very impressed with its performance just as I have been with the nice coticules that I purchased from you.

David

Although I don't own a Chinese 12K I have been wondering about this also, especially since I have only heard good things about this hone, albeit a slow cutter, from everyone who owns this hone except you, Howard. Can you give the stone a thorough review so we understand your point of view?

Originally Posted by JMS

Although I don't own a Chinese 12K I have been wondering about this also, especially since I have only heard good things about this hone, albeit a slow cutter, from everyone who owns this hone except you, Howard. Can you give the stone a thorough review so we understand your point of view?

I absolutely positively third that request. I respect Howard's opinion and really would appreciate some explanation of his relatively cryptic post.

i own both and think this is more of a personal perference in feeling of an edge. some poeple prefer more teethy feeling and some the ultimate smooth. you see some people shaving off an 8k or others going all the way to news print to finish and edge.

personally i prefer the feeling of the 12k. the coticule is very nice and definitely a great edge but its personal preference. the coticule has a slightly more teethy feeling to me. if you enjoy that than by all means go with it. myself i like a bit more smooth feeling then that so i finish on the 12k. some people would go to 0.5 pastes which is even more smooth feeling. some onward to the 0.25 paste or 30k shaptons. its all what you enjoy. the 0.5 edge is nice but overtime i just have come to prefer the 12k step which i feel is inbetween the coticule and the 0.5.

thats my 2 copper pieces,
~J

My vote is with the 12k. 100%
It just seems to me to be a better shave. I don't much care for comparing the speed or usability of the stones as what matters to me is the quality of the shave, which for me definately goes to the chinese stone.
Yes it is slow, and it is a huge stone(which I don't like, I wish I could cut it into a smaller piece) but for my face it works wonders. It just feels so much crisper(if that means anything)

I spent over 6 months using the coticule, which was great but I haven't used it since I got the 12k. I might use it if I wanted an inbetween stage, but I have a thuringen in a better size than a coticule so I use that instead now.

I would only buy another coticule if the price dropped significantly - which I don't see happening.
Don't forget though that much of this is down to preference and for you the coticule may well be better than the 12k. My thoughts are that if you have the 12k and are happy then the coticule is unneccesary but maybe it will be more to your taste(if you need a faster stone for example or if you want a small stone) You just need to justify the cost then.

Yes, most people tend to get a WOW with the coticule. I have the Chinese stone and it's a slow cutter. I don't like slow cutters. I don't like to slow cut because there's more time for something to go wrong and ruin the effort. It's also porous. It will load up over time unless cleaned. I like the belgian stones because they're not porous and cannot load up. All the honing action takes place on the surface. The Chinese keep trying to woo me with the stone but I'm not convinced it's the optimal way to go for straight razor users. I use the blue belgian and then the yellow coticule and then strop.

After using the Chinese 12k some more, I am finding it easy to get an overhoned wire edge. Strange because I thought it was a slow cutter and I never get a wire edge from the Coticule. Anyone else or am I crazy here?

Originally Posted by Howard

Yes, most people tend to get a WOW with the coticule. I have the Chinese stone and it's a slow cutter. I don't like slow cutters. I don't like to slow cut because there's more time for something to go wrong and ruin the effort. It's also porous. It will load up over time unless cleaned. I like the belgian stones because they're not porous and cannot load up. All the honing action takes place on the surface. The Chinese keep trying to woo me with the stone but I'm not convinced it's the optimal way to go for straight razor users. I use the blue belgian and then the yellow coticule and then strop.

Thank you Howard. Your reasoning is clear to me now!

*Preface: I don't have nearly as much expertise in this field as Howard, and have not used a coticule. I just want to comment on his comment about the 12k chinese loading up.

I have found, that using a 600 grit diamond hone (lightly) to start a mild slurry, keeps the stone perfectly flat and exposes new grit much faster than the stone could load up. And @ $20-$30 a piece I don't feel bad about the wear (minimal as it is) that is imposed on the hone.

As is mentioned above, this seems to come down to a matter of preference as well as luxury. I am a general enthusiast in straight shaving, so I can't really justify the extra cost if results will be "close enough", though I plan to one day own many hones including a coticule. And when I do have the disposable cash to invest in a set of belgians, Howard will be the man I go to. But until then, I am enjoying the shaves I get off the Chinese 12k.