Thread: "Hone ready" revisited

It still seems to me that the manufacturers could at least sell razors that have the bevel set correctly. It like buying tires that you have to cut your own treads in!

Originally Posted by Doc

It still seems to me that the manufacturers could at least sell razors that have the bevel set correctly. It like buying tires that you have to cut your own treads in!

Good point!!

Originally Posted by Doc

It still seems to me that the manufacturers could at least sell razors that have the bevel set correctly. It like buying tires that you have to cut your own treads in!

If they did this then there would be light hone wear and scratches on the side of the spine. Most people want a new razor to look brand new. In order to accomplish this at a low cost the razor manufacturers will hone the razors with the spine slightly lifted.

even if they hone it lifted woulnt you have a decent bevel that you could maintain by taping the spine? also would the hone wear be significant that the marks could not polish it out after honing? No trying to be argumentative just trying to learn

I found that my honing improved greatly when I finally got 30 power handheld lighted microscope $12. It showed on my Ebay specials when the bevel was properly established. Once my bevel was there it was a short trip to being shave ready.

bj

Thank you Josh for a very concise and well written post,
I have heard so many new hone-(Heck I don't know what ya call them)
Talk about 12k, 15k, 30k and what paste to use in the last 2 weeks.... It is scary.... I think (and I could be wrong here) that not enough time was spent establishing the bevel in the first place, and they are chasing the edge, so to speak to get it sharp.... You should set that thread back up and talk more about the first, and most important, step of honing again.....

There I'll step back down off of your soapbox and give you a hand back up there to shout Bevel, Bevel, Bevel, louder and louder!!!!!!

Originally Posted by Doc

even if they hone it lifted woulnt you have a decent bevel that you could maintain by taping the spine? also would the hone wear be significant that the marks could not polish it out after honing? No trying to be argumentative just trying to learn

Most people hone without taping the spine. Also the only way that your idea would work would be if the amount that they lifted the spine during the initial honing was exactly the same as the width of the tape that the person used for later honings which would be very unlikely. As far as polishing out the scratches, TI and DOVO use very course stones for main honing (then attempt to polish the edge with very fine stones without sufficient intermediate steps) so it would likely take a lot of work to get out the scratches if they layed the spine down. Unfortunately this is just the way that it is, wishing that it were different will not change the situation. Just learn to deal with the double bevel issue using a marker and/or microscope and you will be fine.

I agree with the setting the bevel first. Before I touch steel to stone, I look at under the microscope. From this look I can tell if I need to start with a 4K or 1K. It saves a lot of guessing. I'm also able to determine if the steel is any good. If looks like it might crumble, I'll take to the 220 for a few swipes but getting the edge ready to take a bevel is paramount in my thinking. When all the factors are taken care of; it's amazing how fast a shaving edge will show up.

David,
Unfortunately my test razor I sent to you got damaged some (folded edge). It was a little spot but I was amazed at what Josh and I had to do to work it out. He left me in good shape after many passes on his 1200 diamond plate. I spent some time yesterday on my 4K removing the 1200 scratches, then a little bit of time on the 8K to polish. Stropped on chrome-ox felt then leather.

Best shave to date with the test razor.

I was really not joking in my quotes post from the ohio get together. Josh stated if you have spent ten minutes on the 8k and not popping hairs, you're wasting your time. The bevel is not there yet. The proof was looking at 2 of Lynns' hones. 4K lapped down to nothing yet the 8k side is thick as could be. This doesn't apply to regular maintenance, but for edge restoration it's true.

The microscope is cool and lets you look at your scratch patterns and polish. But with Josh showing how to examine it in the light with no magnification was a big help as well in the early stages of honing. Light reflection will tell you a lot.

Reading it and applying can get you close, but seeing it first hand kicks the door wide open. Rolling the blade for smiles and odd heel toe patterns. Seeing it first hand made me say "ah, now I see what they were saying".

I was not the individual of Joshs' post, but the time he spent with me was invaluable. Thanks Josh.

Jerry

Originally Posted by kilowattkid

I was really not joking in my quotes post from the ohio get together. Josh stated if you have spent ten minutes on the 8k and not popping hairs, you're wasting your time. The bevel is not there yet. The proof was looking at 2 of Lynns' hones. 4K lapped down to nothing yet the 8k side is thick as could be. This doesn't apply to regular maintenance, but for edge restoration it's true.

Kilowattkid, it sounds like you really got a lot out of the one on one help from Josh. I wholeheartedly agree with your findings/statements. Certainly if you are not making progress on the 8K after 10 min then you have more work to do on the lower grits; however, I would even go further. I would say that if you have not made quick and significant progress on the Norton 8K after 10-25 strokes then you definately need to go back to at least the Norton 4K. In my opinion this is why Lynn's pyramid method works so well. In effect you are setting the bevel with the 4K then quickly polishing it (about 5 strokes on the 8K is all that is needed to get the effect of the polish) and test shaving. If the razor is not shaving well then you go back to the 4K to try to make the bevel better then polish and test shave again until you hit sufficient sharpness. I do things differently in that I have tests that reliably tell me if I have done enough work on the lower grits, so then I can just move on to the high grits and polish to a shave ready edge. Both methods will work very well if used properly.