Thread: Grr, first lesson learned

Check the blade for warping! I was honing my wapi, trying to establish a good bevel and getting nowhere quick. I had great bevel to one side, and none at all at the other end. Being the straight forward thinker I am, I set to find out why. Sure as hell, the sides that weren't getting the bevel weren't even touching the hone! The Wapi seems to have a slight warp to it such that the tow curls ever so slightly to the right and the heel to the left. All that hone wear for nothing


The good news is I'm having great success with my german razors. Nothing shave ready yet, but I'm getting there. Not that I didn't respect the honemeisters' skills before, but I now have insider respect. It's amazing the level of skill some of our members exhibit with a stack of rocks.

I posted a quick and easy trick to check warpage before wasting time on honing or at least traditional honing methods. The link is here: http://straightrazorpalace.com/showthread.php?t=16788

Wapis have been spoken highly of for some time; however there appears to be a growing sentiment among recent purchasers of the NOS Wapis that the quality may be different (lower) than the NOS Wapis purchased in the past. I purchased 8 approx 3 months ago and I would say 5 are significantly warped and would require advanced honing technique to get them shave ready. Personally I am not a fan of this razor.

I wonder if the "tide will turn" on this razor and if the popular sentiment will change to viewing this razor as less desirable than when they first burst onto the SRP scene. The stock razor is way too scale heavy and out of balance and I don't think it could be argued that the blade quality fluctuates widely from excellent to downright poor.

Chris L

I had heard that, but I didn't think about warpage for two reasons. First, I'm just learning. I've got 20 things in my mind and something is bound to be forgotten. Second, mine is the older "good" kind that typically weren't warped. Live and learn

I'm more comfortable with the hones now, so hopefully I can recognize something like this before I waste time. Great thread by the way. That's how I ended up identifying it for sure. I laid it on my DMT and sure enough it was raised just enough to not touch.

One of the hardest things I'm finding it to keep the blade flatly on the hone without using pressure. It's like learning to shave with a straight again!

I've honed maybe a dozen Wapis, including several of the variations. I have found the consistency to be spotty, but they can usually be made shave-ready. Several of them had issues similar to what you're describing, Quick Orange. I'm not sure if the problem is really warping or whether it's just poor grinding. It would be hard to warp a blade as thick as the Wapis are.

The steel always seems to be decent, though.

Josh

Originally Posted by JoshEarl

I'm not sure if the problem is really warping or whether it's just poor grinding. It would be hard to warp a blade as thick as the Wapis are.

I think you're right here, Josh. I myself have probably taken too loose of liberties in generalizing that a razor's edge not lying flat on a flat surface is due to "warping" when like you've said, there are other factors that can be at play when a razor is showing such signs of being flawed. Maybe there is a better term that we can use when the cause of the edge not laying flat is really undetermined?

This may be related. I have an old Swedish Engstrom that has what seems to be a warped/concave edge, yet the spine looks flat. Very weird razor. Manufacturing defect or user damage? A real challenge to sharpen, either way.

I have a Wapi with a abgle on it. I managed to hone it up ok though just took a bit longer and an x pattern.
I'm not going to buy any more though. I like them but not with the higher price. The first few were a real bargain.

Now that I'm getting into grinding, I can see how tricky it is to get a razor ground just right. On one blade I did the other day, I got the middle a bit thinner than the toe and heel. When you hone it, it quickly develops a frown. Not cool.

I think a lot of the razors I've previously thought of as "warped" are just ground unevenly. For example, some low-end Dovos had a tendency to have a heel that won't sit on the hone on one side. I once worked on a seven-day set, and all of them showed this same problem. I suspect that what's going on is that the worker is right-handed, and when he sticks the blade into the dual-wheel grinder, it's going in at a very slight angle.

Lots of vintage razors exhibit quirks like this, too. Razors are basically mass produced by hand, and I doubt the factories spent as much time on each blade as do makers like Tim Zowada, Joe Chandler and Robert Williams.

As for a better term, how about FUBAR? It's a little non-specific, but it gets the point across.

Josh

Well, warped or otherwise its a pain in the neck for a newbie honer. I know how to fix it, I just don't have the skill yet. Someday soon though.

Originally Posted by JoshEarl

Now that I'm getting into grinding, I can see how tricky it is to get a razor ground just right. On one blade I did the other day, I got the middle a bit thinner than the toe and heel. When you hone it, it quickly develops a frown. Not cool.

I think a lot of the razors I've previously thought of as "warped" are just ground unevenly. For example, some low-end Dovos had a tendency to have a heel that won't sit on the hone on one side. I once worked on a seven-day set, and all of them showed this same problem. I suspect that what's going on is that the worker is right-handed, and when he sticks the blade into the dual-wheel grinder, it's going in at a very slight angle.

Lots of vintage razors exhibit quirks like this, too. Razors are basically mass produced by hand, and I doubt the factories spent as much time on each blade as do makers like Tim Zowada, Joe Chandler and Robert Williams.

As for a better term, how about FUBAR? It's a little non-specific, but it gets the point across.

Josh

I'm really glad you're getting into the process as deeply as you are, Josh. I can probably speak for all of us when I say we're glad to be able to share your progression in this art form. I thank you for your willingness to share your ongoing findings with us as well.

It's cool that the more involved you get in this process the stronger your appreciation for the intricacies of razor production.

FUBAR it is. I've got a whole mess of FUBAR razors. I understand that even stamped rather than hand forged razors had a ton of human interaction in the process and therefore IMO can be considered loosely to be a handmade product. Even so, I will go on record saying this:

Personally, I would much rather have a lower valued Sheffield, Solingen or even American razor of no brand in particular that lays flat on the hone on BOTH sides, is therefore easy to hone and takes a great edge than some pretty looking high valued razor that does not sit flat. I'm sure opinions will differ, but at least at this point I am so not into having to fight with a blade, use "creative" honing methods and work work work in the quivering hope that I can get a great edge on a problem razor. Maybe someday my opinion will change and I will enjoy the challenge. Can you tell I've battled some problem razors and have yet to win with them?

So, guys that enjoy the challenge of working for a very long time to finally attain a shaveable edge on a problem razor will not have to worry about me outbidding them, or PMing before they do if an expensive razor comes up for sale with the following disclaimer: "Highly collectible, appears mint; another razor like this just sold for $600 last week. The only modifications to traditional honing techniques you'd have to make to hone it to a perfect edge are: Find a blue green stone with a 60% red tint from the planet Tatooine only 14/16" wide, then while standing on your head and reciting the Declaration of Independence backward hone the razor using your big toes and alternating with a "W" and an "S" pattern for each half of each pass.....

Hey wait a minute: Maybe THAT'S what I have to try to get an edge on a FUBAR TI and a few FUBAR Wapis!