Thread: Norton 4/8k ->Chinese 12k pyramid?

Hi Guys,

I finally got my Norton 8k and Chinese 12k hones today (which supplements my Norton 1/4k) and i went to try and get some sharpness into my Puma 225. It hasn't been passing the hanging hair test (HHT) and i was hoping after some pyramid work with these stones i could pass the test.

I've watched Lynn's dvd and i decided to got with a 10-10, 5-5, 3-3, 1-3, 1-5 on the norton 4k and 8k. Then i did 20 on the Chinese 12k, Lynn said to only do 10 but as i understand it the Chinese required more work to get the same edge. I then did around 30 strops but i still haven't passed the hanging hair test and as Lynn said not to over sharpen i don't want to simply keep on sharping it and maybe ruin it. I'll shave with it later and see how it goes, i'm sure it will be better but i'd like to get it to pass the HHT.

So i'm wondering what i should do now, assuming that the razor still pulls when i shave with it. Do i go back to a 4/8k pattern as about, maybe start at 15? or do less at start at 5-5? Also how many strokes should i do on the Chinese 12k?

The razor feels sharp and smooth when i pass it over my wet thumb, easily cutting into the first layer of skin. When i pass it over my nail i can't feel any bumps or jagged parts.

I have tried to research this as much as i can but i feel i'm at the stage of maybe needing some advice so if anyone's got any tips i'd love to hear them.

Orfeo

ps: i should mention that the blade had previously been honed badly by me and i have a flat spot, 1mm wide, on the spine and i taped over this with some electrical tape to avoid letting the flat spot grow larger.

What hair are you using to pass the HHT? Some peoples hair
is too fine to pass it. I use the hair from my goatee, as this
is the hair your hoping to cut and have also used my chest hair.
Are you able to cut arm hair with it? How about the Thumb Pad Test?
I generally do 100 passes with the Chinese 12K after using the Norton 4K/8K combo.

Of course the most important test is the shave. Plenty of
people are able to get a good shave without passing the
HHT using hair from their head, but I would make sure you've passed the TNT and TPT before moving on. Good luck.

John

I was using my girlfriends hair which is quite fine i think, my arm hair is pretty fine as well, it just pushes the hair out of the way. The thumb pad test resulted in the blade feeling smooth as it starts to dig into my thumb. I slid the blade about 3/4 of the way down the length of the blade and at that point it had dug in to far to go any further. Doing small TPT sections was fine and the blade just slide in a bit but doesn't grab. I had a test shave but it still wasn't spectacular, it feels like the razor is scraping more than cutting smoothly. I think i may try and hone it some more as the razor is a second hand one and perhaps i just haven't gotten to that stage of sharpness yet.

orfeo

If it is cutting hair but scraping a little and not leaving behind razor burn during the shave test do about five or so very gentle strokes on the 12K then try again. You are pretty close. It might be as many as twenty strokes more on the 12K but I would do them only five at a time between test stroke on the face. You want to sneak up on the perfect edge not go shooting by on the way to overhoned.

I can never get the HHT right, not with my hair not with my wifes hair not with the dogs hair, and not with the hair from my brush. It just doesn't seem to give me any kind of consistent result weather I have honed the razor or had it honed by Lyn or Joe or anyone else. I've pretty much given up on doing this test other than for the coolness factor of splitting the hair.

Pumas a nice razors, I agree with wildtim, it needs to be rescued. Snag a cheap razor from some where and refined your technique on that one rather then a good razor. It also sounds like to me you have been using unnecessary pressure. There is a learning curve to honing as you have discovered. Have your good one rescued and use as a benchmark for sharp to compare with your practice razor. Eventually you will find a much better test for sharp then the HHT. Ultimately, its the shave.

You could try using black marker on the bevels and doing some conservative pyramids until it passes the marker test and TPT. Then go to the Chinese 12k for 60 to 100 laps, it cuts really slow. Be sure to lap your hones first.

Reference here. You can calibrate your TPT skills with a DE blade.

I also agree with practicing on a used razor (of good steel) before honing up your Puma.

Good luck,

I have a 4k/8k Norton and a 12k Chinese also, you seem to be right near there. I would also think 5 passes shave then 5 more if needed.

I couldn't get the razor to pass the HHT with my hair so I then started to pull bristles out of a cheap boar brush I didn't like. That worked for me. I think the boar bristles are more like facial hair.

you mentioned previous honing, presumably without tape on the spine. Now you're taping. Makes me wonder whether you've actually got a bevel established. I think the marker test (and looking at the blade with some magnification) will shed a lot of light on the subject. it might be that you need to reset the bevel, and then sharpen and polish your edge. If the bevel is off (or if you have two...) then you may be on that chinese stone forever before you get the results you want.

good luck and let us know what works!
Bill

Originally Posted by piervinc

you mentioned previous honing, presumably without tape on the spine. Now you're taping. Makes me wonder whether you've actually got a bevel established.

If you are taping the spine, and the previous hone job was without tape, then there is no problem, the edge is in full contact with the stone. The problem would be if the previous job was with tape, and you don't use it.

To better answer your question, it would help to know if you saw an improvement from the sharpness of the blade from before you started honing as compared to after. If there was a noticeable improvement, then you are close to where you want to be, a few more passes on the 12k would be good. But if there wasn't a definite increase in sharpness, you may not have completely finished setting the bevel, and should go back to the 4k/8k.

And as was mentioned earlier, pressure is very important. Use only the weight of the razor as you hone. It is very easy to over do it on the pressure without even realizing.