Thread: First razor honed - advice needed

Well, essentially bart and I are saying the same thing: If the razor isn't absolutely wonderful, it needs more work.

It's just that Bart is recommending that you go back to the beginning and start over, and I (and Randy) are saying you may not need to go that far.

Which method saves you the most time depends on the precise condition of each blade (which will be slightly different each time), so any conclusion you draw will have to have a stipulation that the blade condition is variable.

Lastly, time should be the least of your worries as you learn to hone. Take your time, figure out what is actually happening to the blade if you do an x stroke, use two handed pressure, back-hone, form a slurry etc. Check the blade (TPT) after every 5 or so strokes and get a feel for how the edge progresses on your stones, then adjust our advice to fit your experience with your specific methods.

Bart, since I don't know your exact methods, nor equipment, it's hard to say where this discrepancy is coming into play. But if your blade was so dull that the coticule didn't make it any sharper after that many passes, it is really a mystery as to how it was shaving hair at all.

I don't mean that as an insult or anything, it's just that I have never had a blade that was even close to cutting hair that didn't respond very well to a little more time on the coticule.

One very likely possible reason why this could happen is that the sharpness of the blade is not even from heal to toe. Some portions could be fairly sharp and thus shave ok while other portions are still very far from being sharp and will require a fast cutting stone to set a working edge. A bevel creation stone like a DMT 1200 or Norton 1-4K should be used until the razor is very sharp from heal to toe. Then you should be able to make quick and significant progress on the Belgians or other polishing stones. Here is some information that might help you: http://straightrazorpalace.com/video...eo-series.html



It is one of the fastest cutting stones out there and can be used to actually set the bevel if you want to take the time.

I respectfully disagree with the bold portion based on my experiences but agree with the second statement. The cutting power of a coticule and a DMT 1200 are not even in the same ballpark imo. If you are spending too much time on the coticule it is not the most efficient/best stone for the job based on where your edge is at that time.

David

Time is not a worry for me.

I would rather go slowly and like you say, understand what is going on. This whole straight razor thing is kind of addictive.

I think I shall drop back to the coticule and spend some more time on it and then do some serious laps on the strop to see if the sharpness improves.

Thanks for the input and thoughts from all.

Sorry about the small misunderstanding; in my mind, I make a distinction between stones and hones, and don't always type out that I intend to exclude artificial/barber hones and diamond hones when I say stones (in fact sometimes I mis-type and have to go back and edit my post). I meant that the Coticule is one of the fastest cutting naturally occurring sharpening stones. It is obviously nowhere near the DMTs for speed.

But I still maintain my original observation that "several hundred laps" on a Coticule with slurry, and then without, ought to have made any blade improve if it was even sharp enough to be considered for a test shave. If the blade wasn't assessed thoroughly prior to the various test shaves then there is an error in procedure that doesn't justify the conclusion that the Coticule is ineffective until after you go back and start over.

The big point here that we're kind of dodging is that the method used to bring a blade up to speed depends entirely on it's starting condition. And that accurately assessing it's condition just takes experience. Sure, going through a progression then starting over again if it isn't quite smooth enough will get you there, eventually, but may be entirely unnecessary if a few passes on the finishing stone will do.

It's all a matter of accurately assessing what has happened to the blade, and what kind of progression will make it do what you want.

Smalleyboy,

I'm sorry this thread did became all argumentative. Although interesting, I don't think that's peculiarly helpful for someone who's taking first steps in honing. I'll refrain from addressing the various side points, and attempt to bring this back to basics.
First, I'm very sure all gentelmen offering advice in the previous posts all are fully capable of getting a great edge on a razor. So, by all means, don't think we are contradicting each other, although it may appear that way.

The simplified basics of a razor's edge boil down to two things: sharpness and smoothness.
Sharpness comes from the two panes of the cutting bevel meeting each other in the smallest possible straight and even line. For shaving hair, the width of that line is typically around 0.5 micron. Wider is duller, smaller is sharper.
Smoothness is determined by the scratch pattern on the panes, and defines how well the edge avoids scraping cells of your skin while it cuts hair.

There are other principles at play as well, but as far as I'm concerned, they are all under debate, and not needed to be brought into account when you're new to this.
There are various methods to produce that sharp and smooth edge, but the one that suits your set of hones best is often called "the progressive honing method".

I personally like to think of it as:
stage1: aim for sharpness (create that bevel with the smallest possible meeting point) and

stage2: polish the panes of the bevel to a shaving comfort that fits your face.

Now, I'm not saying that you cannot do some of the work from stage 1 at stage 2, but, if you're learning, why confuse yourself?

I can see 2 reasons not to:
1. Sharpness comes from setting a good bevel (stage 1). If you failed to do so before you polished (stage 2), then, go back and get it right this time. Ok, it might be possible to correct your mistake with fumbling during stage 2, but you are practicing, right?

2. You particular hones, and the way you use them, don't allow for much bevel creation.
The Belgian Blue really is a polishing hone. Period. It excels in that. On my woodworking tools, I jump from 600 grit right to the blue, and it's amazing how reliable and fast he removes the 600 grit scratches. BUT, he doesn't like to eat his own scratches, and as soon as he evened out that lower grit scratch pattern, he stops doing anything. You could hone till your arm falls off, that Blue wont do anything more for your edge.
The Coticule with only water and very low pressure is a very slow hone in that fashion. Yet, both are stringent conditions to be rewarded with a premium shaving edge. You could raise some slurry on that coticule to add some bevel-formation power to its polishing abilities, but you would be up for a surprise. (Try it, and you'll know, I'm not about to confuse you even more, at this point)

So now you know, why I advised you to go back to the DMT. Perhaps you're only 5 laps off. Well, I think you ought to do them.

About the HHT: I value the HHT more as a sharpness (and thus stage 1 test) than as a final shavereadiness test. You can lie to yourself about the HHT ("my hair is too thin") but the fact is the HHT won't lie to you. A truly sharp bevel will do something with a hair. Any hair, as long as it's not greasy. The razor might just split the hair, or you may need to drag it across (never along) the edge a litte bit, or you might have to cut rather close to the holding point (if the hair is very light). You even might need to strop a few laps first. But the fact remains: it takes you 1 good honing job to know how your hair responds to the HHT off a DMT1200, and then you'll have a solid test to know when you're done with stage 1. (I bet that you'll see your HHT-results of the DMT improve a little bit further, as you gain more experience)
At the same time, I would like to emphasize on the TPT. It's a far more versatile test, once you develop the proper feel for it.

Bart.

Once again thanks to all for the replies.

I am new to honing and as I said at the start, I have 3 cheap razors to practice on. My first attempt went fairly well, but I was frustrated that I couldn't seem to find that elusive sharpness I want.

I believe that my strokes on the hones were not light enough and I didn't strop enough. I only discovered this through the posts on this thread. So already, I am further on than when I made my first honing attempt and when I try again later today I shall aim for a lighter stroke and more passes on the strop.

The joy of this forum is that not everyone does things the same. Whilst, it can be confusing to a newb, all these differing views, it does give you something else to try when a particular approach doesn't work.

So it's off for some more practice, practice, practice with the honing.