Thread: Norton 4000/8000

I'm gonna jump on this thread real quick because I am eagerly awaiting my new Norton 4/8K.
A while back I ordered the honing kit from WildTim that includes a "glass hone" and 2k grit sandpaper, and then a leather hone (basically a strop glued to a board so it's flat, etc). I put CrO on the leather hone. WildTim said he intended this as "bookends" for the Norton. Is there any advantage to still having a cuticule (barbers?) hone, or is that redundant with the pasted strop?

Also, I totally forgott about "lapping" the norton. Will I need to also lap the 4/8, send it off to be lapped etc? I ordered from vintage blades if that makes any difference. If I need to lap it, what do I need to get?

IMHO, stay with just the 4/8 to start with. Learn what it is capable of doing to your razors. Learning to use the 4/8 to bring an edge to shaving sharpness is required before you can really benefit from any of the finer grits stones or pasted strops. The finer grits will not make up for a less than shaving sharp edge. Frankly, the single most important grit, for me, is the 4000. That establishes the bevel, the foundation, of a good edge.
Keep your Norton, flat, clean and fresh for maximum effectiveness.

Just my two cents,

Unless they said so, it won't be lapped.
Yes it need to be lapped. fairly often.

Imo the best cheap option is the norton flattening stone at 30$.
The best option is a DMT8C.
Both of which can be obtained from Howard.
The D8C is very handy, and can flatten all stones. not just nortons. and it doesn't wear when used normally.

You can use the sandpaper method (look in the FAQ) but it never worked that well for me.

What Randy said, the grits above 4K polish the already sharp edge. If it ain't sharp they will take a million years to get it there. That said I agree with the other posters that a DMTC for lapping is the best and a Chinese 12K for finishing. Great bang for the buck on the 12K.

Since I have the glass hone, I think I'll try the sandpaper method first.. Money is tight for us college students! Plus I don't really want to wait another week or so to be able to use the Norton! I've got a big shoulderless Loxley that's just shy of shaving sharp (I can shave with it, but not comfortably.. Pasted strop helped but not quite enough, I'm thinking a quick touchoup pyramid will do the trick). Love the feel of the razor though and if I can get it sharp enough think it may become a favorite.

Originally Posted by Bruno

But if you want a finisher, I'd pick the coticule over the chinese stone, simply because it isn't porous (the surface doesn't load) and because it is very versatile: you can change the cutting speed by changing the way you use it, and his makes it good for touching up razors that are not quite shaveready.

Bruno, how do you mean?

Originally Posted by randydance062449

IMHO, stay with just the 4/8 to start with. Learn what it is capable of doing to your razors. Learning to use the 4/8 to bring an edge to shaving sharpness is required before you can really benefit from any of the finer grits stones or pasted strops. The finer grits will not make up for a less than shaving sharp edge. Frankly, the single most important grit, for me, is the 4000. That establishes the bevel, the foundation, of a good edge.
Keep your Norton, flat, clean and fresh for maximum effectiveness.

Just my two cents,

Randy, how often are you lapping your 4/8K?

I am with randy (that may be because I'm on minimalist streak right now), but until you can shave comfortably off your norton you need more honing practice.

Originally Posted by Basher052

Bruno, how do you mean?

I believe means by using slurry (to cut fast) and water to polish the edge at the end. If I have to have just one hone it will be the coticule - it's the most versatile for me (the norton is 2 hones so it doesn't count, but I like that it's faster, but dislike the porouseness can be happy with just a norton too).

I find that the best is to lap before each honing session, which I don't do but I should. I don't think you need any aggressive lapping - I find that few swirls are enough to get it working as it should.
But of course I have almost no experience compared to randy, john and bruno, so you should listen to them

Originally Posted by Basher052

Bruno, how do you mean?

Depending on whether you use slurry or not, it can cut fast or slow.
The thickness of the slurry determines the cutting speed.
If you start with a thick slurry, you can remove a reasonable amount of metal in a relatively short amount of time, to set the bevels.
Then you rinse off the slurry (it will be black by then) and use a very light slurry to polish the edge.
Then you rinse that off, and do the last 20 passes with only water on top to get a smooth mirror polish.

Of course, you can change this routine to suit your preference, but with a coticule there are lots of different ways to use it. This makes it more versatile than most other stones.

If your razor does not have major edge damage, then 1 coticule sufices for everything you need to do.
In the beginning, that's all I had, and it did everything I wanted.

Originally Posted by Basher052

Randy, how often are you lapping your 4/8K?

Lets distinguish between lapping and refreshing a hone.

Lapping is when you are making sure the hone is flat and use the pencil grid trick. That I do only when the hone feels it needs it.

Refreshing the hone is is a light version of lapping, maybe 10-15 laps, using a 1000 grit Norton stone. It is done under running water. The purpose is to clean the hone of "swarf", the buildup of metal, tape, hone binder and loose abrasive grain, that have become lodged in the stone. This leaves a clean hone surface with the maximum cutting power. I do this before each honing session and , now, before each razor. Sometimes, when a razor is very demanding, I will refresh the Norton 4K more frequently.

My lapping is done with a diamond hone, approx 400 grit, and then I finish/refresh the hone with my Norton 1000. That leaves a texture on the hone that feels "right". A coarser finish grabs the razor to much, a finer finish is ok but I have to be careful not to use a hone/sandpaper that will leave any embedded grit. So my choices are a 1000 grit or a very hard stone, such as the Chinese 12K. Other hones will also work.

Always rinse and scrub the hone under running water as the last step.
That removes any leftovers.

The improvement in honing speed makes this tedious process very worthwhile.