Thread: Yeloow Slurry Stone for Yellow/Blue Stones?

Originally Posted by Chris L

If anyone DOES listen to English in this particular post, then I'll be the first to ask that you send all of your Belgian Blue stones to me for disposal. I'll take them all off your hands.

I have at least three Belgian combo stones both naturals and the older "bonded" yellow to blue. Prior to lapping, I can say that I have seen dishing on BOTH SIDES of these stones. That tells me that the blue WAS used in conjunction with the honing process! One of my natural combos has the mining date at between 100-150 years as estimated by Rob Cellis and other old time miners that marveled at the stone I make reference to.

I think we can separate our arguments not between the blue and yellow stone but instead between CUTTING and POLISHING. Yellow coticules are excellent polishing stones and in my experience, slow and even ineffective CUTTING stones. I have one vintage coticule that cuts so quickly, that steel swarf appears across its soft creamy surface in 5-10 passes. This is far from being the norm. That stone is exceptionally unique. Frankly, most yellows get the yawn from me as cutters even with slurry. They don't remove steel fast enough. Enter the Belgian Blue; with blue slurry, I put it in the same realm as a 4000K stone. Just because it wasn't regarded as a superior stone "back then" doesn't mean it's crap. It is what it is. It cuts. It removes steel well and it's a truly beautiful stone.

Chris L

Russel was posting while I was writing this. We share the same sentiment.

I think that when dealing with natural stones, generalizations are iffy at best. I know there are exceptional stones in all categories and there are also some duds. Many have different results from the same type of stone with and without slurry, with and without pressure, narrower stones, longer stones, etc... and that's part of what makes this personal and exciting. Tuning your equipment to your technique and to the subject blade is the challenge. It still takes us to the same place so it's all good!

Originally Posted by English

Look, I'm not going to win any argument against you guys because you bought the stuff. I mean let's face it, it's been available for purchase for at least two years now. It's been available for wall building for hundreds of years.

What is it that you know that your for fathers didn't. I mean lets face it, they only invented razors. I also think they could sharpen a razor to perfection.
They chose to use yellow coticule, not blue. They also used newspaper.

Still if I ever find any blue, I'll send to you Chris, you can use it for your footpath.

I'm not trying to start an argument with you. There are many ways to "skin a cat" as we say in the U.S. Some of us like collecting and using many different types of stones even stones of varying effectiveness and usages.

I think there's a whole other aspect to this equation today versus back then when our fathers were making, buying and using new razors. I'd argue that back then, there was much less need for a person to bring an "Ebay" type edge back from decades or even a century+ of neglect, tarnish and decay. A new Dovo or TI with a factory edge that can cut you easily out of the box most often CAN be brought to superb shave status on a coticule alone. Many NEW razors only need a small number of passes on a fine polishing stone to be shave ready. Additionally, most razors that are essentially shave ready but through use just need a "touch up" are perfectly suited to a coticule! I don't think the majority of men and barbers in 1850 were buying and restoring pitted, micro-chipped (or worse), rusted, dinged razors back then.

You're also correct, you're not going to convince me to toss my Belgian Blues, not because I simply bought them, but because I use them and they cut steel very nicely (much quicker than all 5 yellow stones I have except one) and compliment the polishing ability of the yellow very nicely.

I have one coticule so hard and so ill suited to producing any slurry when honing, that it would never work at doing anything other than polishing an edge, period. We're talking natural stones here. You could never make a blanket statement saying ALL yellow coticules work exactly the same way and with the same effectiveness. There's significant variation in the stone mined from that type of vein. That's a fact.

Chris L

Originally Posted by Chris L

So I don't know if you were saying that whoever owned your vintage bonded coticule before you did DID hone on the Blue side, or that you're thinking since your yellow is bonded to blue that it must have been for the intent of the original purchasers of those types of stones to use the blue for sharpening purposes.

Good point, Chris. One came to me with both sides apparently unused and the other arrived with both sides nicely flattened, with rounded edges, so I can't say anything conclusive, based on my stones. That said, I don't see why the blue sides would be finished to the same standard as the yellows if they weren't intended for honing.

Originally Posted by Chris L

You're also correct, you're not going to convince me to toss my Belgian Blues, not because I simply bought them, but because I use them and they cut steel very nicely (much quicker than all 5 yellow stones I have except one) and compliment the polishing ability of the yellow very nicely.

That's my experience, too (though I'm only comparing to three yellows).

Well, I've put sharp edges on 3 razors (Cornwall, Fontain and a Gotta) with the blue. I've then given them a little polish on a wet coticule after the blue and they are better than when I tried to sharpen/polish them on just the coticule!!
This may be down to the extra width and length of the blue over my small coticule,or it may be down to the blue being more suited to bevel creation, I don't know - yet, it's just what seems to be occuring.
Maybe size is everything?
M

you know, I've got some blue flagstones on my back patio....hmmmmmmm......maybe I can lap those puppies and hone my razor.......

..................

Chris and Russel,

Sorry, my words are heavy handed. I don't mean you guys don't know what you are talking about.

I'm not looking for a fight and your points as always are ofcourse perfectly valid.

In my experience and with the hones I have, the blue stone has always seemed superfluous to me. A series of a events which I won't go into has lead me probably incorrectly to believe the blue stone is a bit of a con.

Both my Thuringien and my coticule will smooth an edge through the 4000 grit level very easily. In fact the Escher I have adds the best polishing of all the stones I own. I totally accept that another set of stones would indeed give a different perspective and a blue might just fit in there perfectly

The point about the size of the stone is also very valid.
My grey Thuringien is 10"x3" while the Coticule is 5"x1.5".
I may think the Thuringien to be a lesser stone If had a larger coticule. But I'll never know because I can not afford that size of Coticule.

Originally Posted by English

Both my Thuringien and my coticule will smooth an edge through the 4000 grit level very easily.

No harm done and no offense taken, English. We're all a passionate bunch when it comes to our razors and stones.

What exactly did you mean by your statement above? I'm afraid I don't quite understand it.

Chris L

English, I'm not sure I agree with you argument. Perhaps you are not paying attention to what others are saying. Can you tell us razors in what condition and with what progression you are normally honing, as well as typically how much time/laps it takes you at the different stages (how many razors have you honed that way will help as well).
Also have you given a reasonable try to a blue belgian - you seem rather opinionated about them. How many coticules, thuringians/eschers and japanese stones have you tried and on how many razors? Your generalizations may be perfectly valid, or they may be completely bogus and a result of your inexperience. You would have to back up your generalization with something statistically more significant than the combined experience of the others who have provided numbers before I can give it serious consideration.

Can anyone here say "novaculite"? According to geologists and Arkansawyers alike that's the answer to putting a refined edge on a "novacula" or fine razor.

Bees' knees is bees' knees, after all.