Thread: Belgian "Deep Rock" Hone

I think there must be differences in the way different natural stones work, even when they come from the same quarry.

I don't understand why though.

The garnets in the coticule are the cutting medium.

In the blue stone, there are less garnets than in the yellow stones.

So the yellow will cut faster. Also, the softer the material, the more garnets will be released and so again the faster the cutting. It's the reason that a slurry makes a hone cut faster.

What I do not understand is why a stone with just water and no slurry cuts finer and polishes better. The blade is passing over the same garnets.

Originally Posted by English

I think there must be differences in the way different natural stones work, even when they come from the same quarry.

I don't understand why though.

The garnets in the coticule are the cutting medium.

In the blue stone, there are less garnets than in the yellow stones.

So the yellow will cut faster. Also, the softer the material, the more garnets will be released and so again the faster the cutting. It's the reason that a slurry makes a hone cut faster.

What I do not understand is why a stone with just water and no slurry cuts finer and polishes better. The blade is passing over the same garnets.

With water you hone on inert garnets that are partially embedded in the surface. With slurry the garnets move around and roll underneath the edge. In my experience the resulting scratch pattern of both methods is the same. Slurry cuts a multitude faster, but the loose particles doesn't allow an edge to become sharper that a certain level. With water you can use the coticule to polish edges that are much sharper than that level. CaptainZero even polishes Shapton 16K edges with it.

The median size of the Blue's garnets is about 10 microns bigger than that of the coticule. One also needs to bring into account that garnets can have different amounts and shapes of spikes, and that a small garnet with acute spikes possibly cuts more aggressively than a large garnet with obtuser spikes.

Bart.

During a google session on garnets one of the things stated is that temperature will affect the hardness of a garnet. Part of the process of depostit formation is being buried underground for a long time where there is a high temperature. Perhaps the temperature varied at different depths? Perhaps enough to effect the ability of a garnet to splinter?
perhaps the composition of the binding material varies enough to affect the release of the garnets?

Lots of variables with no firm answers.

Russel.... I have seen the blurring in other coticules as well.

I bought a stone-like from this topic, I think that the stone does not let you down. In appearance, the stone looks soundly. Here is a photo of stone:

Newbie here. Do anyone of you veteran honers know the best way to get the most out of these deep rock coticules? I tried to slurry mine but it hardly gives up slurry. When it does slurry, the result of shaving off slurry is rather rough even with stropping. I also tried water only on the deep rock, but my razor wasn't as keen as with the coticule I got directly from Ardennes. Off the deep rock coticule, the razor barely passes any hanging hair test. If it does, it makes a loud twang cutting the hair. On the other hand, with the stone from Ardennes my razor passes the hanging hair test each time off of just water, around 30-50 stroke and strop with minimal effort. And do you guys know if these deep rock coticules are similar to the BARBERS SPECIAL BELGIAN RAZOR HONEs I see on Ebay? They look very similar. If the barber's special coticule is way better I'll try to get that one to try. Thanks.

Jerry

I have sharpened at its Belgian stone. My experience says that this stone did not finish. After that Belgian stone needed Escher.

I see now. I guess I'll have to look for an Escher stone. I do have a Larkin Co. Thuringian hone, but that hone does not even come close to the Ardennes Coticule. I followed the instructions on the box and using slurry for 15 minutes tried to hone the razor. The razor off the Thuringian hone does cut arm hair but pulls on the face. I wonder if I should just stick to water on the coticule. My barber keeps his razors screaming sharp but won't tell me how he does it beyond stropping. I have my CrOx on my leather strop but that is less effective than stropping on my palm. I have jnats too, but they make the skin burn and bleed even with shaving cream, and I get cut without noticing. I just want a simple smooth shave.

Thanks again Gipson!

You understand that the Belgians are different in properties. A Belgian can be a finishing stone, and the other not. My stone was not finishing.

I have yet to find a coticule that could not produce a serviceable edge. If you make slurry on it, then you are making it a more aggressive cutter so you gradually have to dilute the slurry with water to transition it to a finishing stone.

If you are getting a twanging HHT you probably have produced a sawtooth edge that is catching and breaking, rather than cutting, the hair.

I would suggest that you figure out this stone before buying another one.

Originally Posted by Utopian

I have yet to find a coticule that could not produce a serviceable edge.

The key word is "serviceable" I did have a coticule I played with for months that shaved. The edge wasn't great but serviceable would be a good descriptive word of the edge. I didn't get excited to shave off it like other coticules I had.

Some coticules are better then others! It's a game of chance