Thread: Sharpening Wakamisori

For the following pictures I do not have the original link /source. I'd greatly appreciate anyone providing that. The text accompanying the original document was difficult to translate, so much that a friend turned to a friend more skilled in translating for assistance. I greatly appreciate their help.

However, the instructions are still not quite as clear as I had hoped.
This is what I have now, and thought it might be interesting to hear other's thoughts
I have also seen some rather gambled translations of instructions following Mizuochi Ryouichi's technique. It would be nice to get those clarified as well.

Then we could dissect and analyze, compare and contrast, obsess and tinker until we come up with a good system with the finer points clearly identified.

① Keep the Place 5mm of the back of the razor from the edge flatly on the water stone.
② angle of the razor with the water stone and hone it with all surfaces of the water stone.
③ Hone the razor with enough slurry of the water stone.
④ Hone the razor to fit the part of circles as shown in the picture with the water stone completely.
⑤ After honing the front face of the razor, place the razor to fit the back of the razor on the water stone completely and hone it lightly. The power of distribution is seven (for the front) to three (for the back).
⑥ Then, strop the razor on your palm or cloth, like jeans, etc., to wear out the burr.

VERY HELPFULL

When I was selling Tosuke's I had a link to a Japanese site showing exactly how to hone them. It was basically use a 12K hone and do back and forth strokes using varying degree's of downward pressure holding the razor straight with a 3:2 ratio with more strokes on the concave side. Simple really. The secret is in knowing how much pressure to use on the hone.

Originally Posted by hi_bud_gl

VERY HELPFULL

Cool. I'll have Mizuochi-sans demo translated in a couple weeks.

Originally Posted by thebigspendur

When I was selling Tosuke's I had a link to a Japanese site showing exactly how to hone them. It was basically use a 12K hone and do back and forth strokes using varying degree's of downward pressure holding the razor straight with a 3:2 ratio with more strokes on the concave side. Simple really. The secret is in knowing how much pressure to use on the hone.

Why do you consider these photos to not show exactly how to hone them?

These instructions demonstrated with a tosuke kamisori suggest nearly 1.5 times more attention on the omote.

I can't fault you for a lack of link as i am too lazy to search for the one that goes with this series. Is there another besides this one and Mizuochi's.

On occasion I have minor trouble with my razors, however I still maintain that razor sharpening is just about as simple as it can get... so it's not that I disagree with you bigspender.

The point of this thread is to ask the rice cake maker

Originally Posted by kevint

Why do you consider these photos to not show exactly how to hone them?

These instructions demonstrated with a tosuke kamisori suggest nearly 1.5 times more attention on the omote.

I can't fault you for a lack of link as i am too lazy to search for the one that goes with this series. Is there another besides this one and Mizuochi's.

On occasion I have minor trouble with my razors, however I still maintain that razor sharpening is just about as simple as it can get... so it's not that I disagree with you bigspender.

The point of this thread is to ask the rice cake maker

This was years ago that I had that link so I never saved it. At that time there was really little interest in these razors except of course from the people who bought them. At that time most of the buyers were given the link.

I agree it should be simple and I think it is much simpler than honing western razors. I've honed many of these razors and done some bevel redos and what I've learned in the end is that you have to adapt to get the job done no matter what any site says no matter who wrote the instructions. For Tosuke's the method I described worked fine, for iwasaki's it didn't. I'm working right now on restoring two japanese razors and one I was able to redo the bevel using western means and the other I'm having to do some radical experimenting with lifting the spine on the convex side varying degrees. I'm not saying your site is wrong. I'm sure it works. Its no different than with honing western razors. There is no one cookie cutter solution. All roads lead to Rome, just the route is different.

The only important thing is to conserve the asymmetric form anyway you need to. If you don't you are just creating a frankenrazor, not japanese not western.

I've had some time to work with these instructions. It occurred to me that perhaps even with the translation all is not clear.

The first step is woeful; I simply cannot bring myself to complete the process as shown on a new razor. Basically because I cannot explain or fully comprehend the purpose. What they are asking you to do is first grind the flats shown in pic 4. In the series leading up to it there is no mention of the amount of pressure. Slurry and swarf can come with time on a stone, but it does look as if there is some pressure applied. His fingertips are white but not as white as you might expect if the force applied is extreme.

to be clear: The face in picture 4 is the omote. The front.

Next we see a very clean and fresh stone. On to the back of the razor; the ura, the side used against the skin. Here it is specifically mentioned to use light pressure.

To follow these instructions exactly the process is to do all work on the omote and then do all work on the ura.
You could use whatever measure you like, for instance if it takes 7 minutes to produce the flat, you would then spend 3 minutes on the back or count strokes-whatever

Obviously this type of sharpening is likely to turn up a small burr, which is dealt with in the instructions. Usually I have dismissed all tales of wiping away the burr on the hand or on your jeans, something I have seen repeated rather often in various places. That's just not how I learned it, but here it is again.

with my stuff ...One razor I have was mocked in the auction talk. I received it as a gift about the same time as I read the thread. I'm sorry my wife saw the disappointment on my face.

So much for listening to armchair experts as there is nothing about it too far out of line with these methods. (It's certainly not new but not as bad as some well used kamisori I've seen) I have not been able to discover who made it as it is only marked with quality stamps and the name of a 500 year old business still in operation. At least after some study of the subject I feel a lot better about the tool.

I'm not suggesting anyone run out and perform this exact process on a new razor. I got hold of an NOS Iwasaki that's about 4-5 years old. There is only the slightest glint of flat on the original factory honing and I have been trying to maintain this with light pressure and stropping.

Finding an old barber manual or information on how to shave oneself with a kamisori has proved difficult. Asking around the consensus is to vary the grip right handed with the ura on the face.

Maybe in another week or so the next set of instructions will get translated

Originally Posted by kevint

I've had some time to work with these instructions. It occurred to me that perhaps even with the translation all is not clear.

The first step is woeful; I simply cannot bring myself to complete the process as shown on a new razor. Basically because I cannot explain or fully comprehend the purpose. What they are asking you to do is first grind the flats shown in pic 4. In the series leading up to it there is no mention of the amount of pressure. Slurry and swarf can come with time on a stone, but it does look as if there is some pressure applied. His fingertips are white but not as white as you might expect if the force applied is extreme.

to be clear: The face in picture 4 is the omote. The front.

Next we see a very clean and fresh stone. On to the back of the razor; the ura, the side used against the skin. Here it is specifically mentioned to use light pressure.

To follow these instructions exactly the process is to do all work on the omote and then do all work on the ura.
You could use whatever measure you like, for instance if it takes 7 minutes to produce the flat, you would then spend 3 minutes on the back or count strokes-whatever

Obviously this type of sharpening is likely to turn up a small burr, which is dealt with in the instructions. Usually I have dismissed all tales of wiping away the burr on the hand or on your jeans, something I have seen repeated rather often in various places. That's just not how I learned it, but here it is again.

with my stuff ...One razor I have was mocked in the auction talk. I received it as a gift about the same time as I read the thread. I'm sorry my wife saw the disappointment on my face.

So much for listening to armchair experts as there is nothing about it too far out of line with these methods. (It's certainly not new but not as bad as some well used kamisori I've seen) I have not been able to discover who made it as it is only marked with quality stamps and the name of a 500 year old business still in operation. At least after some study of the subject I feel a lot better about the tool.

I'm not suggesting anyone run out and perform this exact process on a new razor. I got hold of an NOS Iwasaki that's about 4-5 years old. There is only the slightest glint of flat on the original factory honing and I have been trying to maintain this with light pressure and stropping.

Finding an old barber manual or information on how to shave oneself with a kamisori has proved difficult. Asking around the consensus is to vary the grip right handed with the ura on the face.

Maybe in another week or so the next set of instructions will get translated

Kevin, I found this same information totally independently from your post...here's the link from Ehamono. I made my own translation--I would be happy to post it, but I wouldn't say it's significantly different from yours. I also found this guide (scroll down), from another knife shop. This one seems a bit more detailed, and it includes information on ratios and pressure. I'm almost finished with my translation of it.

Just thought I'd add my two cents...

Originally Posted by JimR

Kevin, I found this same information totally independently from your post...here's the link from Ehamono. I made my own translation--I would be happy to post it, but I wouldn't say it's significantly different from yours. I also found this guide (scroll down), from another knife shop. This one seems a bit more detailed, and it includes information on ratios and pressure. I'm almost finished with my translation of it.

Just thought I'd add my two cents...

That's awesome Jim. I'd love to see what you come up with for both

Ok folks, here's my translation of the razor honing guide from •ï’š�EƒiƒCƒt‚Ì’Ê”Ì�ue�n•¨.com�vƒAƒJƒVƒLƒRƒE�`ƒlƒbƒ g‚Ì�n•¨‰®‚³‚ñ�š•ï’š�EƒiƒCƒt‚Ì‚±‚ƂȂ炨‚Ü‚©‚¹�I. This is NOT my original work, and I have not been able to get written permission for this, so please don't use this for your own nefarious purposes. I'll try to get my translation of the other guide (which claims it's from Ryouchi) up soon. Hope it helps!

方 市原さん直伝のカミソリ研ぎ（下の写真は、市原さんの手です(^^)）
Initiation into sharpening by Ichihara-san (Those are his hands in the pictures below)
砥石を5～10分ほど水に浸け、十分水を含ませます。
Submerge your stone for 5-10 minutes, until it is well soaked.
研ぐとき、砥石に水を付ける際、少し石けんを混ぜると、すべりが良くなり、滑らかに研げます。
When honing, as you add water to your hone, mixing a little soap in the water will improve the slip and make your honing smoother.

剃刀の裏、先端から5mmぐらいのところをしっかり押さえ、砥石にベタッと当てます。
Place the back (ura) of the razor flat on the stone and press firmly at a point about 5mm from the cutting edge.




そのまま、一定の角度を保って砥石の全体を使うように、スライド。
Maintaining a fixed angle, and making sure to use the whole surface of the hone, slide the razor keeping pressure on the blade.


鎬部分を研ぎすぎないよう、刃先に力を入れて、指と一緒に研ぐ感じで研いで下さい。
To avoid excessive wear on the ridges of the blade, keep pressure focused toward the edge,almost as if you're honing your fingers with the blade.


しのぎの部分と、刃先の部分が砥石にピタッと当たるようにし、※刃先部分に力をかけるようにし て研ぎます。
Use pressure to make sure the blade ridges and the blade edge stay firmly against the hone.


表が研げれば、今度は裏面をベタッと当てて軽く研ぎます。
表７：裏３以下ぐらいで裏を研ぎます。
For the front (omote), this time hold the backside lightly and hone. Do not exceed a ratio of omote 7: ura 3 when honing the ura.

最後、手のひらやジーンズなどで軽くなでるようにして小刃（かえり）を取ります。
Finally, lightly run the razor on your open palm or your jeans to remove the burr or wire edge.