Thread: Some tips about DMT

In my opinion (unless my hone was a fluke) the N220 will not sharpen tools it was designed to sharpen before braking down… no question about dishing… on the first stroke the tool will make a nice, neat gouge. It seems the tool “cuts” the hone because the binder is not strong enough to allow the grits to cut the tool before the releasing the grit.

No question as to the need for the grinding wheel to be soft. But a hone powered by One “Human” Power cannot generate enough heat to burn metal, so why is the N220 so soft?

But you may be right… for those who can afford it; the DMT may be the best bet for rough cuts and flattening other hones.

I use 220grit W/D sandpaper… grit for grit; I get better mileage than I ever did with the N220… dollar for dollar; is also get better mileage because in my case, 220grit is used rarely.

Originally Posted by Utopian

The basic lesson is to never loan an ax or splitting maul to anyone. You will always get it back with either a busted handle or a trashed edge. One or the other is a guarantee in my experience!

Amen Brother! Amen! Happens everytime.

Originally Posted by smythe

No question as to the need for the grinding wheel to be soft. But a hone powered by One “Human” Power cannot generate enough heat to burn metal, so why is the N220 so soft?

The reason is the same for both, the binder strength is designed to release grit when the cutting pressure increases due to dulling of the grit... Unfortunately it is not an exact science but there has been some thought put behind it. Small tools if used with too much pressure on such a coarse hone will cut into the stone, no doubt about that. Even the 500 and 1k Shaptons are apparently softer than the higher grit versions as there have been reports of them wearing faster. There are plenty of old oil stones around, the carborundum type that simply wear until they really don't cut all that well anymore.... grit does not release and while it takes longer to dish, it also takes much longer to hone something... exactly the reason why the Japanese and later the Norton water stones have become so popular for tool sharpening. They are soft and need to be flattened far more frequently but cut much faster than the old oil stones.

Regards

Kaptain "Not quite a whippersnapper anymore.... I can actually remember when water stones were rarely seen and everyone complained about how quickly they would go out of flat!" Zero

I agree in essence, yes they must be friable to release fresh abrasive.
But come on manufacturer.

If you really want to try the David Copperfield of 220 synthetics hop on a King that's been soaking a couple of days.

I like to use stones and little pieces of stones to polish rather that use sandpaper. These are pretty easy to come by when you thin a stone down to 3mm and break it accidentally.

True, none of this has much to do with razor honing; but one needs the axe to harvest scale material from the woodlot, tool edges to refine their shape. It'd be hard to keep my attention if straight razors were only about hair

My shapton 120 lasted less than 12 hours of sword grinding before it became unusably thin; i want to say 8 but try to be fair.

edited to add gratitious sword pic

Originally Posted by kaptain_zero

They are meant for tool sharpening and as such intended to be used in a proper fashion. If your hone (remember, we're now sharpening oh.... lets say a chisel, held in a sharpening jig) begins to dish it is because you are not using the surface evenly. Dishing in the center means use the ends more. Christian

Any tool which touches the hone on more than one point makes it impossible to wear the stone evenly.
My friend's log splitter is like a giant quarter hollow with the spine and bevels touching the stone.
This means that the middle of the stone (which sees both the edge and the spine) is going to wear down faster then either of the short ends, which see only the spine or the edge.

I've see the edge of that axe scrape of honing material with each pass. I understand the need for new particles to be released, but the 220 is just falling apart.
I lost between 1/8 and 1/4 of material in the middle, just from taking the nicks out of that axe.
This means I could only use it 2 times and the stone would likely snap from being too thin.

I't's just too soft.

My friend's log splitter

I should have mentioned this earlier but this is a case of using the wrong tool for the wrong job. A splitting axe, maul or wedge is not a fine cutting tool, it's a crude wedge and putting a fine edge on it is wasted (Note, we're talking splitting axes, not a competition felling axe which is sharpened to a razors edge). I personally use either a belt sander, angle grinder or my bench grinder to sharpen such tools. If stuck in the forest I'd reach for this item which can be kept in a coat pocket and is designed specifically for such jobs and yes, it's quite hard and wears well but the steel in such tools tends to be soft/tough rather than hard (it's the softness/toughness of the steel that allows the abrasive particles to cut so deep they stick and are ripped out of a soft hone like the Norton). Well, that and the sheer weight of the tool.

Regards

Christian

Originally Posted by Bruno

But the quick dishing also means that the bevels becom severely rounded.
Going to the next step (starting with a flat hone) means you have to hone away an awful lot of metal before the new hone touches the edge again.

The norton 1000 dishes as well, but it is manageable.
The norton 220 falls apart nearly by looking at it. It is really a worthless piece of hone. It deforms so rapidly that you have to spend a lot of time with the 1000 just to get back to honing the edge.

I have not found that to be the case with my 220/1000.

I was working on honing chips out of kitchen kives with it, and while I was not useing a lot of pressure I honed for about an hour on it and did not wear significantly into the stone.

Well Duh I know that it is pointless to put a razors edge on a log splitter.
But that didn't make it any less fun, and tomorrow I am going to shave with it, just for kicks. It mows down arm hairs effortlessly. I finished it on 8K.

The steel is hard enough that it takes a razors edge, and because the angle of the bevels matches up with the spine, it is essentially a gigantic razor.

I also know that after the first chop, that edge will be gone.
But it was fun to do, it'll make my friend happy to see that his axe is better than befor his FIL destroyed the edge, and I learned a great deal about sharpening, lapping and hones that I couldn't have learned by only honing razors.

Well Duh I know that it is pointless to put a razors edge on a log splitter.
But that didn't make it any less fun, and tomorrow I am going to shave with it, just for kicks. It mows down arm hairs effortlessly. I finished it on 8K.

Well, I knew you knew I knew you knew.... err..... well, I just wanted to point it out... the Norton 220 isn't bad or useless if used for what it was meant for, but it and most other coarse water stones do wear quite quickly and quicker yet if one hones splitting mauls for shaving purposes.

Regards

Kaptain "Hoping you have a hair splitting good time with that maul! Zero

Well, I shaved with it this morning.
The shave went OK, but I'd be lying if I said it was
a) comfortable
b) smooth

The lack of comfort is caused by the fact that the bloody thing has to be held by the axehead to get any semblance of blade control. The ergonomical situation is worsened by the fact that it weighs over 6 pounds, so achieving just a light touch is a bit hard with trembling muscles.

The hairs were removed reasonably well, and close enough to count as a shave imo, but I finished up afterwards with a normal razor, and only a WTG pass, because my skin was burning enough as it was.