Thread: paradoxal honing question...

I have this problem:
dovo carbon, norton 4000/8000....i understand basic honing and i know that i am to use minimal pressure if any one the hone, mainly using the weight of the razor...i can hone in such a way for hours and NOTHING happens to the razor...no change in the texture of the blade, sharpness, anything...ive watched all the videos online, read so many articles that by now, of course, this is very frustrating...

and YET, if i do the opposite of everything that i am supposed to so and GRIND and apply great pressure to the blade, the balde changes texture, gets a 'gritty' feel to the edge, and then becomes very sharp...afterwards i finish on the 8000 and shave...

I know i am doing this all wrong and i know there must be a solution...

Any ideas? how can i make this work?

By chance have you checked the blade for straightness????
Either using the marker test, or by setting the razor on a known flat surface with a light behind it????

The other thing that comes to mind, is the hone flat??? have you lapped it??? and are you doing an X patern????

Hi Mark:

We've all been there (frustration). You're definitely learning something new here.

I assume when you say you grind into the hone and then see results you're talking about the 4000 side of your Norton?

The "weight of the blade only" is a term frequently used. I think the problem can arise if it's taken literally. The way I visualize "the weight of the blade" in a true literal sense, would be separating the blade from the scales, laying the blade on the hone and simply pushing the blade along from the back of the spine with some object that would only provide lateral momentum and absolutely no downward pressure. Thinking of it that way, I don't think I'd ever want to hone a razor again for lack of enjoyment. No one is advocating that.

Have you tried the "marker test" to see where exactly your edges are touching the hone? SOME part of that blade must be touching somewhere. Maybe the blade is torqued to the point where there are significant areas that are simply not making contact with the hone in which case you could hone not for hours, but for days or weeks and never see results. If you have a hollow grind, it would then make sense that reaming on the blade makes contact and produces some lucky results.

I perform the marker test on every blade I put to the hone. It saves time, steel, and best of all, my sanity.

IF you don't have a blade that behaves (most don't really) and lays perfectly flat on the hone on BOTH sides of the blade, then the "weight of the blade only" probably won't work; I mean that you'll probably have to incorporate more creative/advanced honing techniques.

If you give us more info, hopefully we can help you more.

Chris L

Glen beat me to it when I was typing my long diatribe!

Chris L

Originally Posted by Chris L

Glen beat me to it when I was typing my long diatribe!

Chris L

quick draw!!!!! but great minds and all that

In setting bevels I put more pressure then the weight of the blade. Depending on the blade I might use circles or a back and forth stroke 10 to one side followed by 10 to the other. Once I get the bevel set I use a hair more pressure then the weight of the blade. Hard for me to quantify. One of those touchy feely things.

Originally Posted by JimmyH-AD

In setting bevels I put more pressure then the weight of the blade. Depending on the blade I might use circles or a back and forth stroke 10 to one side followed by 10 to the other. Once I get the bevel set I use a hair more pressure then the weight of the blade. Hard for me to quantify. One of those touchy feely things.

+1

To further muddy the waters: IMO when polishing, you have to put enough pressure on the blade to keep it on the hone.....but no more.

Starting out, it's too easy for a person to get really caught up in trying not to exert any pressure and in the process have a blade getting a good polish do a see-saw lift off the hone and torque on the corner of the hone. Start the polishing over then. A blade must be BOTH flat on the hone in consistent strokes AND the person must use as little pressure as possible to accomplish that.

Chris L

Originally Posted by Chris L

The "weight of the blade only" is a term frequently used. I think the problem can arise if it's taken literally. The way I visualize "the weight of the blade" in a true literal sense, it would be separating the blade from the scales, laying the blade on the hone and simply pushing the blade along from the back of the spine with some object that would only provide lateral momentum and absolutely no downward pressure. Thinking of it that way, I don't think I'd ever want to hone a razor again for lack of enjoyment. No one is advocating that.

Someone finally said it. Thanks Chris

wow, thanks to everyone who responded so quickly...

The hone is brand new, so i have not flattened it...carbon full hollow razor

I guess before i attempt to try and use all this new information i have this question:


DOES IT MATTER?? if i have been getting a great shave and havent had any dragging or cuts or any problems whatsoever, does adapting the 'correct' method really matter in my specific case? can i continue to grind the razor....i am in fact using the 4000 when i 'grind'...

"Grinding" : using excessive force on the razor, pushing it downwards...i make sure that the razor is uniformly touching the stone, i do so by: my right hand pulling the razor forwards while my left is 'on top' pushing downwards ensuring it is all moving against the stone...a slurry usually develops after 4 passes...i clean the stone and razor...continue 'honing'...i can really feel the serrations developing...i arbitraily stop after 20-40 passes...move to 8K...strop...shave...


will this simply damage my razor in the long run? this isnt the nicest razor and i plan on purchasing a much nicer one in the future so perhaps the fact that i should preserve the 'razor to come' is the only reason i should change the way i am doing things now....

Based on all the video, it seems to me that the people 'gently brush / glide" the razor over the hone and here i am practically sweating with the amount of force im moving the razor with...

Originally Posted by Chris L

...The "weight of the blade only" is a term frequently used. I think the problem can arise if it's taken literally. The way I visualize "the weight of the blade" in a true literal sense, would be separating the blade from the scales, laying the blade on the hone and simply pushing the blade along from the back of the spine with some object that would only provide lateral momentum and absolutely no downward pressure. Thinking of it that way, I don't think I'd ever want to hone a razor again for lack of enjoyment. No one is advocating that....

I dunno, for finish passes I try to go "weight of the blade only", excluding the scales, but I try and balance that out by making sure I keep the razor flat on the hone.

Hell, if the razor has heavy scales/blade, sometimes I will open them up in such a way as to counterbalance the center of mass back away from the bevel.

Probably all B.S. in the end... but it tickles my pickle.