Thread: Inexpensive Hone

I recently ordered a 5000 grit hone because I cannot afford a 4000/8000 right now. Will this give at least ok results? I also have a 220/400 and a 1000.

What would you finish on? I don't know that I'd want to shave off of a 5K stone.

Chris L

Yeah, that's going to be a little rough if you end at 5k.

The best option would be to get a small coticule, even a 4" length will work (6" would be more convenient, but not necessary AFAIC), bouts are more reasonably priced than square stones and are available through a the various distributors affiliated with this site.

The coticule would be able to leave a great edge on your razor after the 5k and will last your entire life, so if you can scrounge up the funds over a few months or whatever it takes, the investment would be a solid one.

I would recommend getting a finer hone. You will need many many laps on a strop to shave after 5K but it can be done. Linen first, then leather. A little Chrome-ox would help too.

I've read numerous times on here that you can get a good shave from a coticule, but no-one would use their 8k Norton or the Tam O'Shanter as final stone.

But if they are all about 8k grit max, how is this so?

Why doesn't the coticule need a finer finshing stone afterwards? How can an 8k coticule do the same job as a 12k chinese?


Just a thought before I consider buying my 4th hone.


I need help.


We all need help.



Help raising enough cash to buy even more hones and razors!

Who says you cant use 8K as a final polish hone?... i get fantastic shaves of the Norton 8K. I would think its just as good as the coticule.

Originally Posted by smythe

Who says you cant use 8K as a final polish hone?... i get fantastic shaves of the Norton 8K.

Not me. Maybe different beards may respond better to different hone finishes

Originally Posted by gingahippy

I've read numerous times on here that you can get a good shave from a coticule, but no-one would use their 8k Norton or the Tam O'Shanter as final stone.

But if they are all about 8k grit max, how is this so?

The answer is that grit size alone doesn't mean much unless you compare one grit size to another in the same grit material. Coticules contain soccer ball shaped garnet crystals. While the individual crystal is aprox the size of other 8k grits, it's shape is what makes it so different. The facets on the surface of a garnet crystal still firmly lodged in the surface of the hone will tend to burnish/polish instead of outright cut as happens when using sharper, jagged edged grit such as Aluminum oxide or ceramic. That's why the slurry works so well with the Coticule, if you knock loose enough garnets and leave them on the surface of the hone, they now roll and scrub the bevel, removing more steel than they could when held firmly in the surface of the hone, but this is also in part why, when honing with a slurry it seems to keep the edge from getting as sharp as possible as the very edge is bumping into these garnets before they roll underneath the bevel.

Also keep in mind that when dealing with natural hones, it's always an estimated grit size... each hone can vary from one to the next and for that matter change as you wear the hone... Man made hones can be carefully graded by sorting the grit particles for size before forming the hones but once again, you cannot directly compare one type of grit to another based on size alone... all these crystalline materials vary in shape, hardness and durability as well as the binders the manufacture uses to make hones with them.

Regards

Christian

Originally Posted by bokaba

I recently ordered a 5000 grit hone because I cannot afford a 4000/8000 right now. Will this give at least ok results? I also have a 220/400 and a 1000.

Your 5000 grit hone isn't a Zeepk is it?

Originally Posted by kaptain_zero

The answer is that grit size alone doesn't mean much unless you compare one grit size to another in the same grit material. Coticules contain soccer ball shaped garnet crystals. While the individual crystal is aprox the size of other 8k grits, it's shape is what makes it so different. The facets on the surface of a garnet crystal still firmly lodged in the surface of the hone will tend to burnish/polish instead of outright cut as happens when using sharper, jagged edged grit such as Aluminum oxide or ceramic. That's why the slurry works so well with the Coticule, if you knock loose enough garnets and leave them on the surface of the hone, they now roll and scrub the bevel, removing more steel than they could when held firmly in the surface of the hone, but this is also in part why, when honing with a slurry it seems to keep the edge from getting as sharp as possible as the very edge is bumping into these garnets before they roll underneath the bevel.

Also keep in mind that when dealing with natural hones, it's always an estimated grit size... each hone can vary from one to the next and for that matter change as you wear the hone... Man made hones can be carefully graded by sorting the grit particles for size before forming the hones but once again, you cannot directly compare one type of grit to another based on size alone... all these crystalline materials vary in shape, hardness and durability as well as the binders the manufacture uses to make hones with them.

Regards

Christian

A great write-up Christian, but I believe you got the coticule garnet size wrong. The size of biggest garnets in a coticule is reported to be 15 micron. According to information on the website of DMT, that equals approximately 1000 mesh. This is one of the reasons I'm personnaly opposed against a grit rating for natural stones. I believe it only adds to the confusion.
Here's what I think everybody should know about coticules:

-Bevel correction capabilities (use with slurry): removal of barely visible chips and bevel roundness with moderate speed to great speed, depending on the particular stone.
-Edge refinement (with slurry): maxes out on an early level of shaveability.
-Edge refinement (with water): extremely slow, depending on bevel width.
-Edge polishing (use with water): excellent, adds comfort to almost any edge, moderate speed, little variance between different specimen.


For the Belgian Blue:

-Bevel correction capabilities (use with slurry): extemely slow, practically useless with hard steel and/or wide bevels.
-Edge refinement (with slurry): maxes out on a good level of shaveability, no noticeable variance between different specimen.
-Edge refinement (with water): extremely slow, practically useless, unless for microbevel creation.
-Edge polishing (use with water): excellent, adds comfort to almost any edge, slow speed, no noticeable variance between different specimen.

With respect,
Bart.