Thread: Coticule, Tam and Norton 8k

Hi,

I thought I posted this before but can't find it so I'll try again.

Many people say they use their coticule as a polishing stone and it is a great finisher.

I don't understand how it can be when it is only 6-8k grit.

Everyone agrees the Tam O'Shanter and the Norton 8k need a final polishing stone afterwards but not the Coticule.

How is this so when they are all about the same coarseness, how can a 6-8k stone do the same job as a 12k stone or higher?

A fine example of a Coticule, used with just water is probably near the grit of the 12k Chinese. I have to admit to using an abrasive paste after the Coticule though.

Ginga,

Ah the beauty of the natural stone. The maker decided not to send with the stone any specifications or instructions. It's all guess work for us users.

It has to do with the crystal shape of the coticule embedded in the non-abrasive matrix.

Coticule crystals are round in shape, and cut less "deeply" into the razor. Yes, it might be approx 8k if you screened it, but it makes very shallow cuts on the blade, hence the smoother finish.

I think.

Like Bruce says, natural stones are variable. I have a four coticules. One is a fast cutter with water and I don't even bother to use slurry with it. Another is a remarkable finisher and then another likes slurry if it is going to cut. My latest addition is still being evaluated.

Twenty five years ago I knew a few barbers in North New Jersey here in the USA. All of them sharpened their razors on a coticule with lather from their Lather King machines. They might touch it up between shaves with a barber hone such as a Swaty. Coticules are great versitale stones and if I was only going to have one hone that is what it would be.

Like someone else said another forum, I think my brain is a litte too OCD to want to take a chance on how fine a natural stone is going to be, I liek to know that what I have jsut bought is going to be good for this job I bought it for and that will be an end to it.

Yet at the same time I adore that which is old, natural, irregular and unique.

I guess I want everything all at once.

I'll ask the guys at Ardenne if they can determine the hardness of a stone before they ship it.

well i havent heard any complaints from couticle owners anywhere, some prefer to shave right off the hone stropping of course some use cromo afterwards, i guess it is all preference, i have read of someone finisning on a 16 k shapton then using their couticle after that. you cant go wrong with a couticle very good hone and like jimmy had said if you could only have 1 hone it would be a couticle, my barber in his mid 70s now has only used carborundum hones and barber hones in his 50 + years of barbering, he told me that is all you really need to produce a great shaving edge, but the old barbers have a way with a strop like no others ive ever seen. he probably kept his pasted strop hidden from view

I just received this reply from Rob at Ardennes Coticule:




Hi Simon,

We can't determine the exact hardness off a Coticule stone but we do know which Coticule layer is more soft or more hard.
If you like a more harder stone, just type it in the text box at the check out and we will send you a stone with preferred hardness.

Thanks,
Rob Celis
Ardennes Coticule



Now you can't top that for sevice, and this was on a Sunday!

Originally Posted by joke1176

It has to do with the crystal shape of the coticule embedded in the non-abrasive matrix.

Coticule crystals are round in shape, and cut less "deeply" into the razor. Yes, it might be approx 8k if you screened it, but it makes very shallow cuts on the blade, hence the smoother finish.

I think.

I agree, coticules leave a very shallow, wavy scratch pattern, unlike the harder scratch pattern of synthetic hones that work with the constant exposure of sharp grit.
The grit rating of a coticule is rather arbitrary, sometimes comparative to the feel of a "synthetic" edge, other times comparative to the speed of well known hone brands, or even comparative to the expectations of a certain uses of the hone.
Strictly geometrical, a coticule scratch pattern is approximately 1000 mesh, but the resulting edges are so completely different from a typical 1000 grit edge, that any comparison makes no sence.
I think it's more important to know, that coticules, if a slurry is raised, remove steel rapidly, leading to the formation of a very keen edge up to normal kitchen and woodworking use, but leaving something to be desired for shaving sharpness. Without raising a slurry (using only water) a coticule adds smoothness to almost any edge, but it does not offer much refinement for that edge. Those three characteristics are more important to remember than a grit rating.

Bart.

This is the latest reply from Rob at Ardenne, it might make things a bit cheaper for some of you wanting to order from the USA or anywhere else.


About the shipping costs:
I do realize that 15 euro is a lot of money for shipping just one smaller Coticule Bout stone.
The actual shipping costs are 9 euro, the option "registered" is 6 euro.

I can ship packages without the option "registered" but this way our company isn't protected against PayPal claims in case of non arriving packages.

I also know that the UK straight razor community is a community we can trust, so I willing to ship packages unregistered for 9 euro.
But this way it's only possible to order directly through email because I can't lower the shipping costs on our webshop.

So if members of your community want to order stones with a lower shipping costs (unregistered) they can do this by emailing to '[email protected]'.

Or if someone of your community collect the orders of a few members, you can send a "group buy".
If the order is big enough I can give a little reduction % and your members are saving on shipping costs.

If you have further questions, don't hesitate to ask them!

Best regards



I hope this is helpful for some of you, could save you $10 on the cost of your next coticule.

Simon