Thread: help setting the bevel

i just bought a 4/8k norton and am trying things out for the first time. i know you can't (reasonably) set the bevel with the 4k side so bought some 1k norton paper (until i can buy the stone) to try to set the bevel on a damaged puma i bought. the razor was brand new but had rust damage in the middle of the blade, so used some 600grit paper on a piece of glass and did the "bread cutting" method to regain astraight edge. it worked really well but obviously setting the bevel ofter that will take some time. can i go to a lower grit paper to get it started ( i have 600 and 320) and not run into any problems? it seems logical but this is my first time honing period. i am taking it slow though.

I am not an expert, but I believe I remember hearing that if you start with lower grits you increase the chances of micro-chipping while honing.

Can one of the honing masters confirm this theory?

i would use 1000 grit paper to set a bevel if i didnt have a hone for doing it there is a thread here somewhere about using sandpaper to set bevels here is the link not the one i was looking for but the same principle and a very good cheap way to hone a blade http://straightrazorpalace.com/basic...de-review.html

I wouldn't go below 600 grit, because it's just not necessary for what you're doing. (I haven't found that using coarser grits increases microchipping, but others say they've seen it happen.)

Stick with 600 grit, or even 1000 grit, and don't be stingy with the paper. You'll probably need to change it every 50 strokes or so. It cuts very fast. Be careful not to apply pressure unevenly or you'll cause problems. Just keep it even all through the stroke.

The main problem you're likely to have is going from the 1K sandpaper back to the 4K Norton. I've always found that the sandpaper leaves a rounded bevel, and it takes some time to flatten that out again on the hone. Don't be surprised if you hone for quite a while and don't notice any change. In your case, it sounds like you made a good choice to go with the paper, even given the rounded bevel issue. Some damage is just too extensive to remove with the 4K hones, at least in one lifetime.

Josh

Originally Posted by JoshEarl

I wouldn't go below 600 grit, because it's just not necessary for what you're doing. (I haven't found that using coarser grits increases microchipping, but others say they've seen it happen.)

Stick with 600 grit, or even 1000 grit, and don't be stingy with the paper. You'll probably need to change it every 50 strokes or so. It cuts very fast. Be careful not to apply pressure unevenly or you'll cause problems. Just keep it even all through the stroke.

The main problem you're likely to have is going from the 1K sandpaper back to the 4K Norton. I've always found that the sandpaper leaves a rounded bevel, and it takes some time to flatten that out again on the hone. Don't be surprised if you hone for quite a while and don't notice any change. In your case, it sounds like you made a good choice to go with the paper, even given the rounded bevel issue. Some damage is just too extensive to remove with the 4K hones, at least in one lifetime.

Josh

My very first attempt at fixing a blade/sharpening was three days ago using 3M's papers. I had to do the Bread Cutting method to remove a chip. I then went to the 40 micron 3M paper to set the bevel. This only took 25 laps, but the paper was completely worn out afterward. I then moved on to the 15 micron paper. 50 laps, and again the paper was shot. The blade was shaving arm hair easily at this point. I then went to the 5 micron paper for 100 laps. Again, the paper was shot. Then on to 1 micron paper for another 100 laps. This ended up with the blade passing all sharpness tests, even the infamous HHT. The papers do work well, but they wear out so fast, I'm wondering if there is any economic savings in using them at all. I bought five sheets of 40, 15, 5, and 1 micron for 30 bucks. These papers cut *fast* when they are new. So if you even *think* the paper is slowing down, replace it.

It took three full 8.5 x 11 sheets of the 40 micron paper to lap my Swaty stone.

thanks for the posts. i think i figured out my problem. i have been over using the paper. BTW i definitely plan on getting a 1k hone as i can already see the advantages over paper. i will probably get a lapping stone also. could i lap my 4k and 8k on a1k stone? maybe that is a dumb question but oh well.

so would an intermediate grit between the 1k and the 4k help with the rounding of the bevel or is that going to happen with the paper no matter what?

i will try the 40-50 lap per piece and see where it gets me. thanks again and any other suggestions are always welcome....... as i am a newb

Chee - make sure to lap your Norton 4k/8k before use, it does not come flat from the factory.

Good luck,
Mark

get a dmt 8c and be done with the paper and it is a flat bevle when you are done

Read this guide again,

One way to hone an eBay or damaged blade - Straight Razor Place Wiki

there is some important points in there about re-setting a "bread-knifed" edge.... One thing to understand is that you are not "sharpening" on the lower grits you are re-cutting a bevel just like they do in the factory... This is pure and simple metal shaping not razor honing per se, the honing doesn't start until the bevel is cut... I use the three layers of tape to do this, for the same reason as the factory people lift the spine to cut their initial bevel, you need to remove matal.... As to the micro chipping I haven't seen that, even on a 220 grit stone, and who cares if it does, you are going to switch to a 1k and refine the bevel anyway....

As Josh already stated keep the strokes nice and even, since you are now establishing your own edge, you might as well get it straight from the start....

Originally Posted by chee16

thanks for the posts. i think i figured out my problem. i have been over using the paper. BTW i definitely plan on getting a 1k hone as i can already see the advantages over paper. i will probably get a lapping stone also. could i lap my 4k and 8k on a1k stone? maybe that is a dumb question but oh well.

so would an intermediate grit between the 1k and the 4k help with the rounding of the bevel or is that going to happen with the paper no matter what?

i will try the 40-50 lap per piece and see where it gets me. thanks again and any other suggestions are always welcome....... as i am a newb

Using another grit of sandpaper between the 1K and 4K won't help, because the issue is the sandpaper as a sharpening medium vs. a hone as a sharpening medium. The paper has some give to it, so it can round the bevel slightly. It's fixable if you realize what's going on. If you don't--I didn't for a long time--it can be very puzzling.

For what it's worth, a lot of other guys make out just fine with the sandpaper to 4K transition. I wasn't born with that gene somehow.

You can use a Norton 1K to refresh the surface of your 4/8K. However, I greatly prefer a DMT 325 for lapping hones and a DMT 1200 for setting bevels. You can't lap with the DMT 1200--it's too fine and the hones stick together.

Keep at it!

Josh