Thread: Questions of DMT Dia-Sharp 8000 vs Norton

I have recently read through a lot of honing information and eventually came across joel's guide on badger & blade comparing a bunch of different honing equipment using dovo blades.

He states that his personal opinion was that the DMT Dia-Sharp 8000 plate cut faster than the 4000 side of the norton and was smoother than the 8k side. Has anyone else found this to be true? I will eventually have a need for something more coarse than my chinese 12k. If it does in face cut faster do you think it would be able to put a bevel on ebay razors or would I need something more coarse?

My experience has been that stones whether natural or synthetic are a bit gentler on the edge then diamond plates. I have a D8C 325 for lapping certain stones and removing serious chips in blade edges and a D8E 1200 for setting bevels on certain razors. If I was going to recommend a setup for someone who already had the Chinese 12K it would be the above along with the Norton 4/8.

For beveling an E=bay special you would probably want something more coarse. The time it takes to put a bevel on some razors with a 4000 grit stone is quite long, even as fast as the DMT is reputed to cut, I would think the bevel settign time could be kind of astronomical.

I've bread knifed four of my seven old blades now, and set the bevel using a DMT 8E (1.2k grit equiv). Each one has been *alot* of work. I can't imagine how long it would have taken to set the bevel on the DMT 8EE (8k equiv). Of course, setting the bevel on a bread knifed blade is the extreme end of the scale, but then again, if you're getting alot of ebay blades, you might end up bread knifing the majority of them.

Just a newb's point of view, but I really like the 8E for setting bevels. I wouldn't attempt it on the 8EE.

Joel's thread is what talked me into getting the 8EE in the first place, but now I find myself wishing I would have gone with the Norton (or other 8k stone) instead. As many of the more experienced guys around here have said, the DMT 8EE is just too harsh on the blade; it leaves very deep scratch patterns that are a PITA to remove on higher grits.

I really like the DMT 8E for setting bevels, though. It cuts fast. If I had it to do over again, I'd get the DMT 8C (for lapping and extreme reshaping), the DMT 8E for bevel setting (it's sooo fast!), then I'd completely get out of the DMT series for the rest of the grits. Probably a Norton 4/8, and a chinese 12k.

Even after you've found that 50 laps on the 12k eliminates the scratch pattern of the DMT EEF, floorpizza? That doesn't sound too bad to me, considering that you don't have to lap the DMT.

Originally Posted by Ben325e

Even after you've found that 50 laps on the 12k eliminates the scratch pattern of the DMT EEF, floorpizza? That doesn't sound too bad to me, considering that you don't have to lap the DMT.

Yeah, for two reasons...

1. For me, using the DMT 8EE means I *have* to use another stone in my progression. I've read that alot of guys can go straight from a *good* 8k stone right to the strop. Or at least to diamond pastes with good results.

2. It's too easy (for me, at least) to remove too much metal with the DMT. I'm sure it's just me being a total newb, but I think I'd prefer a slower cutting stone at the 8k level.

Honestly, though, I'm still so new at all this that I'm sure my opinion is gonna change daily/hourly. Or all this could just be a lame attempt at justifying a new stone acquisition to satisfy my HAD. That Shapton 8k is drop dead sehksy...

Seriously, though.. this newb wishes he woulda bought a Norton 4k/8k instead of the DMT 8EE.

My perfect hone list (taking money into consideration):

DMT 8C (lapping, reshaping)
DMT 8E (bevel setting)
Norton 4k/8k
Chinese 12k (with slurry stone)
Diamond pastes: 1.0, .50, .25

In my humble newb opinion, that setup would do someone just stepping into the honing game pretty darn well, without breaking the bank.

Originally Posted by FloorPizza

Yeah, for two reasons...

1. For me, using the DMT 8EE means I *have* to use another stone in my progression. I've read that alot of guys can go straight from a *good* 8k stone right to the strop. Or at least to diamond pastes with good results.

2. It's too easy (for me, at least) to remove too much metal with the DMT. I'm sure it's just me being a total newb, but I think I'd prefer a slower cutting stone at the 8k level.

Honestly, though, I'm still so new at all this that I'm sure my opinion is gonna change daily/hourly. Or all this could just be a lame attempt at justifying a new stone acquisition to satisfy my HAD. That Shapton 8k is drop dead sehksy...

Seriously, though.. this newb wishes he woulda bought a Norton 4k/8k instead of the DMT 8EE.

My perfect hone list (taking money into consideration):

DMT 8C (lapping, reshaping)
DMT 8E (bevel setting)
Norton 4k/8k
Chinese 12k (with slurry stone)
Diamond pastes: 1.0, .50, .25

In my humble newb opinion, that setup would do someone just stepping into the honing game pretty darn well, without breaking the bank.

Taking money into consideration?

I have two complete systems for taking a butter knife to shaving neither of which cost more than the Norton alone and the Norton combination presents, probably, the most honing bang for your buck in a single stone.

If you can't shave $50 off this setup either of two ways and still have a good full service set-up going for you, read a little more on the boards.

Getting going with honing, or straight razor shaving itself, doesn't have to break the bank. Even if you are after the "ultimate" experience.

Originally Posted by Wildtim

Taking money into consideration?

I have two complete systems for taking a butter knife to shaving neither of which cost more than the Norton alone and the Norton combination presents, probably, the most honing bang for your buck in a single stone.

If you can't shave $50 off this setup either of two ways and still have a good full service set-up going for you, read a little more on the boards.

Getting going with honing, or straight razor shaving itself, doesn't have to break the bank. Even if you are after the "ultimate" experience.

I've read every thread on this board about honing, including your very excellent thread on the 3M papers, which I used. The only reason I didn't stick with the papers was they wear out very fast. Since I plan on honing razors every day, I needed a system that "takes money into consideration", as well as how fast stuff wears out. Yup, it's definitely true that the films take *much* less initial investment, but when you go through them as fast as I have been, it quickly adds up to the money involved to buy the stuff in my list.

For someone that is only going to be maintaining a few razors for personal use, I definitely agree that the sharpening films are the way to go. For a new guy that's pretty serious about sharpening (like me), I stick by my list.

Sorry Pizza I just don't ever want a newbee to be scared out of trying a straight because he thinks he is going to need $200 worth of crap before he can even get it sharp.

Besides you only have seven razors, if you were following my tutorial correctly you should still be using your first pieces of film, I haven't actually worn a whole piece out yet and I've done a few more than seven razors with it, I've only documented the ones I personally use in that thread.

That said you can cut either one of the DMT's off the bottom of your list, or the 12K or all the pastes and still have a complete system. That would save anyone about $50.

Or for something completely different there are other 1K stones out there that are much cheaper than the DMT so you could pair them with the Norton and finish with CcO powder on newspaper and cut almost a hundred off the list.

Frankly a newbee can buy the Norton alone and handle their needs with just that for quite some time.

Originally Posted by Wildtim

Sorry Pizza I just don't ever want a newbee to be scared out of trying a straight because he thinks he is going to need $200 worth of crap before he can even get it sharp.

Besides you only have seven razors, if you were following my tutorial correctly you should still be using your first pieces of film, I haven't actually worn a whole piece out yet and I've done a few more than seven razors with it, I've only documented the ones I personally use in that thread.

That said you can cut either one of the DMT's off the bottom of your list, or the 12K or all the pastes and still have a complete system. That would save anyone about $50.

Or for something completely different there are other 1K stones out there that are much cheaper than the DMT so you could pair them with the Norton and finish with CcO powder on newspaper and cut almost a hundred off the list.

Frankly a newbee can buy the Norton alone and handle their needs with just that for quite some time.

Very good points, Tim, and in all honesty, if I hadn't decided to get all OCD about this new honing hobby, I would have stayed with the films. For thirty bucks, I had 5 complete sets of film and two flat marble stones to put them on. Definitely all a guy would need to maintain his own blades. And that is a very important point I think you were making.... it's possible to sharpen your own stuff for *much* cheaper than my stone list.

The only thing I find myself really scratching my head over is how long the films last. I just don't seem to get much progress out of a film after 50 laps (100 total blade movements across the film).

I *was* at seven total razors.. .then the mail came today. The count is now at nine... until tomorrow.

Both of these blades have visible chips in the cutting edge, so they're both going to get bread knifed on the 40 micron film. Then I'm going to take one through the rest of the films, then do the same with the second razor on the same films... I'll be (very pleasantly) surprised if one set of films can take both blades from butter knife to (my newb version of) shave ready.

Sorry I went totally off topic here, but anyway... as to the original poster's question.. there are definitely other viable options to both the Norton 8k and the DMT 8EE; it just depends on the budget. You can go from a 3M film on the low end, to a Shapton (or even higher!) on the pricey end. The really cool part is what Tim said: you can get just as good of results with an 8k 3M film as you can with much pricier alternatives.