Thread: Coticule honers -- purists or pragmatists?

Choosing a hone is much the same as picking a razor for me.

The first part of the decision depends on function. For a razor. How long is my beard? (mostly 1 or 2 day stubble) Am I shaving my wives legs? Is a friend sitting in my barber chair, waiting for a shave? What kind of beard has he? All those things influence my decision, in a way they rule out some and favor others. After that, the final choice is based on mood and atmosphere of the moment.

Something similar happens during honing. What does the razor need? How does he respond to the hone? How did he responded to the hone last time?
Apart from that I have my favorites.
But my honing is too intermixed with experimenting (which seems to have become a purpose on it's own) to really allow the choice of hones being determined by fondness alone.

Although I don't do it very often, one of my favorite honing methods is honing on one Coticule only. I get the bevel in good order with a decent slurry and then slowly, by adding two drops of water every 20 strokes or so, dilute the slurry till it's completely washed away. I takes well over 150 of my lightest laps, honing in utmost concentration, careful to not brake that wonderful spell between edge and hone. It's one of my favorite night time activities, zen-like honing, and, if I get lucky, a perfect shave on top. You never quite know what you're gonna get with that method. It turns honing into an elusive art. I like that.

More often, it gets way more technical than that. Soaking the Naniwa Choseras (5K and 10K). They produce a wicked edge that gives me some inexplicably bleeding specks on my skin, if I don't tone it with a few laps on a coticule with water first. That doesn't make the edge cut less effortlessly, only more comfortably.

I have a loom strop with Chromium oxide, that I hardly ever use anymore.
Pasted edges don't last on my beard.

I like this thread.

Best regards,
Bart.

I don't use pastes anymore - I always seem to overhone on them. I go straight from yellow coticule or yellow/green escher (either way, wet and/or with lather) to strop, and get nice smooth shaves.

I always finish my razors on a yellow Belgian coticule. I have sensitive skin and have found that all my razors take a beautifully keen and mild edge off a coticule.

I've experimented with lots of stuff over the years but by no means all of the stuff out there. I've certainly experimented with pastes too. But I started out using nothing but hone and strop and after all that experimentation came back to and settled on a hone and strop.

Nortons are great for setting an edge and the coticule is perfect for finishing it and keeping it keen. That's all I really need and want.

Regards,
EL

Originally Posted by elbonator

I always finish my razors on a yellow Belgian coticule. I have sensitive skin and have found that all my razors take a beautifully keen and mild edge off a coticule.

I've experimented with lots of stuff over the years but by no means all of the stuff out there. I've certainly experimented with pastes too. But I started out using nothing but hone and strop and after all that experimentation came back to and settled on a hone and strop.

Nortons are great for setting an edge and the coticule is perfect for finishing it and keeping it keen. That's all I really need and want.

Regards,
EL

That sounds like what I have. I only have the nortons, and just recently obtained a belgian combo stone. The coticule seems to very nicely smooth the edge after the nortons. I think I have all the hones I'll ever need

Dave

p.s. That's kind of a lie....since I do want to get another coticule stone....you know, for backup reasons...

Thanks for all responses so far. The picture seems to be emerging that for sensitive skin types, finishing on a natural (espcially a coticule) gives a more comfortable shave.

Last night I vandalised my Wapi (calm down, I'll explain ). It had previously been honed on DMT1200, Norton 4k/8k, 3mic paste, 0.5 mic paste (diamond), 0.25 mic paste (diamond). It was a wicked sharp edge, hairs jumping off. But even with a light touch I knew it was harsh. The alum block test was always telling. Skin looks fine, but rub the alum over it and stinging all over. So I dulled the edge -- thumb nail and careful but deliberately bad stropping.

I then revived the edge on BBW (slurry, thin slurry, no slurry progression), and coitcule (thin abrasive milk, water only progression). I really overdid the water-only polish deliberately (150-200 laps, zero pressure). The shave was very good. It was obvious that the edge was not as sharp as when it was put through the pastes. But the huge difference after the shave was the alum block test -- completely devoid of any stinging whatsoever.

I find it incredible that one's skin can be so affected at a microscopic level. But this is what I'm concluding.

I may yet try the chromox option after coticule, but I kind of like the purist ideal of natural hones only -- you know, how it used to be done. That said, like elbonator I'm also one for fiddling and experimenting with things, but I suspect I'll keep coming back to the coticule because of the skin-factor.

I think I'm changing my focus on the whole honing method. Up until now I've been trying to improve the sharpness as the main goal. I think I may pull back from that now. I know I can get the edge sharper (and for a lot of people with less sensitive skin it seems that is the way to a very effective shave), but my objective now may need to be comfort as opposed to sharpness -- the latter is important, but secondary.

Please keep the comments and suggestions coming, I'm getting loads of fun ideas to try!

Originally Posted by OLD_SCHOOL

I have not personally used a coticule but I have used several razors honed by different people, finished on coticules and all but one could not shave me at all. The one that did shave me, lasted 2 excellent shaves, one good shave and then 1 mediocre shave, then it was over.
I sometimes think I should get one, but then I think about those said razors, and realize, that I'd really be taking a step back by getting a coticule and that it most likely would become a dust collector, which I don't need.
I can imagine someone may say, "well you could use the coticule as a stepping stone, before using your Jpanese natural hone." I could but a stepping stone is of no use, I don't need one, and I have tried that with a green Escher with no additional affect that would make me use it on a regular basis.

That's just my opinion and YMMV.

WOuld you say you had a particularly heavy beard OS? (I think I recall a photo of you in a dojo and it looked like you could lap a coticule with that beard! )

I agree though, I wouldn't use the coticule as a stepping stone... you'd most likely slip.

I used to use CrO after my yellow coticule but now I hae a Nakayama. Don't use anything after that. However, I still have a hanging strop with CrO on it and I will sometimes use that to refresh the edge in between trips to the hones. The CrO refresh seems to extend the interval between honings quite a bit.

BBW - Coticule - CH12K - linen - leather does my skin well with one WTG pass and one XTG pass and seems to last very well. My (ChrisL) ChromeOx pasted paddle strop will get the edge 'sharper' but it almost seems too sharp (if that's possible). It shaves close but tends to have a slight burn.

There is no "recipe" of hones, IMHO. You have to choose your approach to the actual razor you are working on. What works on Carbon steel may not work on a very hard Friodur.

I have used Nortons in the past. I have Shaptons from 1K to 30K. I also have several Eschers and a Coticule as well as a combination stone. I found CrOx to be VERY useful. I've also experimented with .25 and .50 dp. The end product-ie. the PERFECT shave is what is important-NOT how you got there.

I have a very heavy beard and found that edges straight off a Coticule just aren't keen enough. Now that I own a 30K Shapton, I'm in the process of "learning" its strengths-as well as weaknesses.

Purists-absolutely NOT. Pragmatist for sure. I want a scary sharp-YET face friendly edge. If I can get it off a natural stone(has never happened yet) so be it. I have no problem using any combination of my hones to get that elusive Perfect Edge!

I like natural stones because they speak to me and I feel they're more forgiving to different kinds of razors. Lately though I'm finding I'm using my Shaptons more because a razor coming off of a 30000 Shapton is sharper and smoother than any edge coming off of any natural I've ever used. I don't even strop it.

So, am I a purist? No, more of a romantic. I love the natural stones, their history, their mineralogy, and the charge I get from using something from nature instead of something man-made. My other side, the techno-geek/bladesmith/scientist side, likes the Shaptons as they sharpen quickly and to an unbelievable edge that shaves great.

Stagehand was here at the shop today and I shaved the back of my left hand with a razor honed with a Shap 30k on the right side and with a razor honed with a coticule on the other. Both razors wiped the hair off but he could feel a tiny bit of difference between the two sides with the Shapton side being a closer shave. Conclusion? Both will get your razor shave ready.