Thread: Edge longevity problems

I've been honing for about three months or so, and really enjoy it. I have a variety of razor grinds and sizes, and I'm generally able to get them to pass the HHT along their entire length, and shave well.

I just can't seem to keep that shaving edge for very long. The longest I've been able to use one razor without a hone touch-up is only a week. Usually, just two or three shaves. Sometimes, only one good shave, and I have to switch razors in the middle of the second shave. I have a heavy beard, and do a daily three-pass (WTG, XTG, and ATG) shave. I shoot for BBS on every shave, and will switch razors mid-shave if I'm not getting acceptable closeness.

My primary hone is a natural coticule. Sometimes, I add a 16K Shapton to the progression. Either way, I finish with a ChromeOx pasted balsa strop. I used to use a DMT 8K and Chinese 12K, with similar results.

While I don't really mind all the honing, it seems most guys on this board go weeks between touch-ups on a hone, sometimes months. Is my experience actually the norm or am I off the rails? Is there a typical cause for poor edge life?

How many laps on the CrO strop? How much pressure.
I 've had similar problems when I was still using CrO. (I did a 30+ laps with a firm drag)

I now get at least a dozen shaves out an edge, before it starts to duck my expectations (although it's still perfectly shaveready at that point)

Could you describe your most typical honing progression?

I 've been where you are. We'll figure it out.

Bart.

Originally Posted by FatboySlim

I have a heavy beard, and do a daily three-pass (WTG, XTG, and ATG) shave. I shoot for BBS on every shave, and will switch razors mid-shave if I'm not getting acceptable closeness.

My primary hone is a natural coticule. Sometimes, I add a 16K Shapton to the progression. Either way, I finish with a ChromeOx pasted balsa strop. I used to use a DMT 8K and Chinese 12K, with similar results.

While I don't really mind all the honing, it seems most guys on this board go weeks between touch-ups on a hone, sometimes months. Is my experience actually the norm or am I off the rails? Is there a typical cause for poor edge life?

Although I would bet that you and Bart will figure out the right combo with the Hones & Strops, your statement above makes me also think that shaving pressure might be a contributing factor to the fast edge degregation..... Here is a fact about straight shaving that naturally improves with time, when you are new there are two things that wear out wonderful edges fast... One is, slightly improper stropping I'm not talking rolling an edge I am talking that it takes a ton of practice to get your stropping to go from tweaking the edge before every shave, to actually helping to maintain the sharpness on every shave... The other thing is angle and pressure while shaving, as you progress, you learn exactly how to slice through your beard without pressure and without slamming the edge into the stubble, but rather scything though it... This will not happen overnight, but you will gradually extend the time between honing, though better honing techniques, better stropping techniques, and better shaving techniques...

Originally Posted by Bart

How many laps on the CrO strop? How much pressure.
I 've had similar problems when I was still using CrO. (I did a 30+ laps with a firm drag)

I now get at least a dozen shaves out an edge, before it starts to duck my expectations (although it's still perfectly shaveready at that point)

Could you describe your most typical honing progression?

I 've been where you are. We'll figure it out.

Bart.

Thanks, Bart.

I usually do about 20 laps on the ChromeOx strop. I try to use light pressure, but a tendency to drift into using too much pressure has been a honing problem for me I have to watch.

I generally single-tape the spine, and keep that tape on throughout the progression, including the ChromeOx balsa stropping.

If I'm starting with one of my typical eBay "looks good for it's age" razors (haha), I start on a DMT1200 to set the bevel. I stop when I can shave arm hair, with some pressure. This can take anywhere from 60 to 200 laps, depending. I've had a few "smiling wedges" that I've gone as high as 400, because I was being inconsistent.

Then I move to either a King 4K water stone, or the blue side of the coticule, with slurry. I stay on this until it grabs arm hair above the skin, and ideally cuts some of it. Anywhere from 40 to 100 strokes, depending. If it takes more than that, I start over on the DMT1200.

Next is the yellow coticle with thick slurry, about like heavy cream rather than milk. I refresh with water about every 10 to 20 strokes or so until all the slurry is washed off, and I'm finishing with plain water. I've honestly stopped counting total strokes when I use the coticule, and try to go by feel, decreasing pressure as the mix changes from slurry to plain water. When I get a nice glassy "suction drag," I stop. At this point, the razor should easily grab and pop arm hair above the skin, and pass HHT. Estimate 40 - 80 strokes. Sometimes many more. If it won't sharpen, I start over on the blue.

If I'm getting HHT inconsistently along the length, I'll finish with between 20 and 40 laps on the Shapton 16K. This is generally "can't fail" for me for getting a shaving edge.

Whether the coticule or the shapton is the last honing step, I always finish on the ChromeOx. Habit.

Stropping technique as shown on some vids here in SRP was a mind opener. Hanging it high so strop is held vertical (down), helped my keeping the strop stiff enuf. After seeing that here I cursed all the movies that show the strops held loosely and horizontal. (thats why I always used a paddle strop) Now I'm shopping for a regular strop. Thanks to SRP!

I like 0.5 chrome oxide edges too, but my heavy beard will dull one in 3 to 5 shaves. I get from 30 to 80 or more when I finish on a barber hone or a 12k+. It depends on the razor too.

I also think the stropping is a major factor in the equation.

EDIT: I might be using too much pressure while shaving. Might be the reason I dull the 0.5 edge so fast. Thx, Glen. I'll work on it.

Originally Posted by gssixgun

Although I would bet that you and Bart will figure out the right combo with the Hones & Strops, your statement above makes me also think that shaving pressure might be a contributing factor to the fast edge degregation..... Here is a fact about straight shaving that naturally improves with time, when you are new there are two things that wear out wonderful edges fast... One is, slightly improper stropping I'm not talking rolling an edge I am talking that it takes a ton of practice to get your stropping to go from tweaking the edge before every shave, to actually helping to maintain the sharpness on every shave... The other thing is angle and pressure while shaving, as you progress, you learn exactly how to slice through your beard without pressure and without slamming the edge into the stubble, but rather scything though it... This will not happen overnight, but you will gradually extend the time between honing, though better honing techniques, better stropping techniques, and better shaving techniques...

Bingo, I've been waiting for someone to say this.

Edge longevity is not just about rolling edges while you strop, or over-reliance on pastes.

It's about (in my opinion, primarily about) shaving and stropping technique. Delicacy and sureness of touch counts a great deal on both fronts. Unlike how-not-to-roll-an-edge and how-not-to-overrely-on-pastes, unfortunately, here's no way to teach plain ol' muscle memory and experience over the 'net.

i think you are having overhoning issue.just check the edge after hone or does blade gets dull if you shave half of your face?just my thought

What kind of razor are you using? Steel quality issue?

later,
Richard

Originally Posted by gssixgun

Although I would bet that you and Bart will figure out the right combo with the Hones & Strops, your statement above makes me also think that shaving pressure might be a contributing factor to the fast edge degregation..... Here is a fact about straight shaving that naturally improves with time, when you are new there are two things that wear out wonderful edges fast... One is, slightly improper stropping I'm not talking rolling an edge I am talking that it takes a ton of practice to get your stropping to go from tweaking the edge before every shave, to actually helping to maintain the sharpness on every shave... The other thing is angle and pressure while shaving, as you progress, you learn exactly how to slice through your beard without pressure and without slamming the edge into the stubble, but rather scything though it... This will not happen overnight, but you will gradually extend the time between honing, though better honing techniques, better stropping techniques, and better shaving techniques...

"The Glen" nailed it once again!!
You may have other issues, but Glens post is absolutely on the money for 98.63% of edge longevity problems!