Thread: high grit then paste

Hi
I've been reading many comments that end with -- then finish on(insert fine paste of choice) strop.

I really don't get it.

Why go to the expense of aquiring an ultra high grit hone if you are going to finish on a paste?

Looking at the mag photos we can see how quick the paste can work with just a few laps- newbs often cautioned not to overdo the pasted stropping as it can lead to wire edges.

If you look at grit size alone CrOx or .5 diamond paste is roughly comparable to a 30K stone. So, if you had a 30K stone like a Shapton I guess you could say that there is no advantage to using those pastes after the 30K stone. Some take that very approach and are perfectly happy with the results. Others feel that a pasted edge is more comfortable to use even if it isn't necessarily sharper than the edge off a high grit stone. Call it smoother or more refined. Then there is the fact that different razors seem to like different finishing media and you have another reason to have high grit stones and pastes.

I view finishing on a pasted strop as more of just "smoothing out the bevel" then really doing any sharpening. I only do a few laps on chromium oxide if the edge off the hone doesn't cut it. But I only use the paste sparingly after I finish on a coticule if the shave right off the coticule isn't the smoothest.

Dave

I think because it's easier to achieve keenness on the pasted strop.

In my present opinion, pastes should only be used to superpolish an already superior edge.
Not to correct a crippled edge.
I don't use them anymore. Maybe when my honing gets better...

Bart.

I have been wrestling with this question for my own honing. On the one hand I know some honemiesters who have the skill and the tools to get a razor scary sharp on hones alone but don't hesitate to say that they finished on paste. I still look at honing razors as a challenge so I feel that until I can achieve the honemiester level on the hones alone I only use the paste as a last resort. If after the first pass the razor isn't up to snuff I get onto the paste before the second pass. This is sometimes all it needed and other times it is back to the hones.

Then I think about how the purpose of the honing is to get the razor sharp and the paste is just another abrasive like the hone so why not take advantage of it ? Matter of fact I have a Bill Ellis custom ATS 34 that I thought I would never get sharp. I had honed and test shaved and went back to the hones 4 times. The last time I did another progression on the high grit Shaptons and then I did 20 laps on Lynn's new felt strop sprayed with the 0.5 diamond spray and that blade was transformed into scary sharp and a great shave. So the paste is useful but I would still like to develop the skill with the hones and avoid using the paste until as Bart says I have improved my skill with the rocks.

There was a thread sometime back on this subject, and of course it went both ways

But one of the more interesting things I read there (I think Bruno posted it) was how some of the EU shaving forums do their sharpening, they basically use one lower grit stone, set the bevel, and then paste the crap out of the edge on slightly loose strops and get great shaves...
I hope Bruno or whoever posted that can link it as it was a very interesting read....
I fall in the use whatever means are necessary to attain the sharpest smoothest edge possible from a particular edge for the longest amount of time catergory....

So how you produce an edge for yourself might be slightly different from how somebody else produces the best edge for themselves.... Heck the razors that we all like are different too, why not how we hone and strop them...

I do believe I started rambling a little there

Originally Posted by StraightRazorDave

I view finishing on a pasted strop as more of just "smoothing out the bevel" then really doing any sharpening. I only do a few laps on chromium oxide if the edge off the hone doesn't cut it. But I only use the paste sparingly after I finish on a coticule if the shave right off the coticule isn't the smoothest.

Dave

I'm a little undecided whether my cot is a fine or super fine, but it's not ultra fine. From 8000 a paste is understandable. And I am sure paste would help my coticule. It's doubling and tripling ~12000 and then paste... maybe the same as 8000 and paste

I am only supposing(not proposing) that 8000 is superior enough. superior, crippled, I'm not sure what definition you have. I'm not using them, but i cannot say i am to the point where Psing would go unnoticed. I'm more interested in getting as much as i can get -trying to- from a given hone. The shave is , I'm still learning how best to do that as well. I just take what I get and call it a partially flawed test

Originally Posted by Bart

I think because it's easier to achieve keenness on the pasted strop.

In my present opinion, pastes should only be used to superpolish an already superior edge.
Not to correct a crippled edge.
I don't use them anymore. Maybe when my honing gets better...

Bart.

Originally Posted by JimmyHAD

I have been wrestling with this question for my own honing. On the one hand I know some honemiesters who have the skill and the tools to get a razor scary sharp on hones alone but don't hesitate to say that they finished on paste. I still look at honing razors as a challenge so I feel that until I can achieve the honemiester level on the hones alone I only use the paste as a last resort. If after the first pass the razor isn't up to snuff I get onto the paste before the second pass. This is sometimes all it needed and other times it is back to the hones.

Then I think about how the purpose of the honing is to get the razor sharp and the paste is just another abrasive like the hone so why not take advantage of it ? Matter of fact I have a Bill Ellis custom ATS 34 that I thought I would never get sharp. I had honed and test shaved and went back to the hones 4 times. The last time I did another progression on the high grit Shaptons and then I did 20 laps on Lynn's new felt strop sprayed with the 0.5 diamond spray and that blade was transformed into scary sharp and a great shave. So the paste is useful but I would still like to develop the skill with the hones and avoid using the paste until as Bart says I have improved my skill with the rocks.

I was thinking of getting those same things: a felt and spray. Which when coupled with a superior 8000 grit edge would be mighty smooth. With all respect to the Hm's- just because they use paste doesn't give me permission or excuse. I am not in the business; as Bart said: it's just easier, making faster money for the HM

Originally Posted by gssixgun

There was a thread sometime back on this subject, and of course it went both ways

But one of the more interesting things I read there (I think Bruno posted it) was how some of the EU shaving forums do their sharpening, they basically use one lower grit stone, set the bevel, and then paste the crap out of the edge on slightly loose strops and get great shaves...
I hope Bruno or whoever posted that can link it as it was a very interesting read....
I fall in the use whatever means are necessary to attain the sharpest smoothest edge possible from a particular edge for the longest amount of time catergory....

So how you produce an edge for yourself might be slightly different from how somebody else produces the best edge for themselves.... Heck the razors that we all like are different too, why not how we hone and strop them...

I do believe I started rambling a little there

Yes you did
That was interesting, the German School.
Until we start talking about thinning edges until they break down then nurturing them back to "critical mass" how do you know it's sharp as possible? (assume we don't care how long it lasts because it is too easy to get back)