Thread: overhoning

I have heard very vague descriptions : It's when the edge breaks down. A given natural won't do it; but a fast cutting synthetic is sure to.

The honing angle is set, the hone abrades right at the very very very edge until it turns up the tiniest bur (+1) you turn the razor and cut away the bur(-1) continuing along the stone until at the end of the stroke you have turned up the tiniest bur.

So if all was perfect like how i does it you hit the zero again and again. Over honing by going back and forth.

Which makes the point again from the HM's in my other thread. using just the right pressure. Too light and the bur might become exaggerated as the "0" edge floats up a little, honing happens behind the 0 thinning elongating the bur- very fragile construction.

Too much and you are flexing the actual factual part of the razor turning up a monster bur you can rip off.

just right and you force the bur into a tight curve that continually rezeroz itself.

This is a question. Thoughts?

I think that a wire edge isn't much of a problem, with regular testing and light finishing strokes.

I've tried to make one on purpose several times, using light pressure, without success. I have made one using relatively heavy pressure and continually honing the same side (more like a burr..?).

If you do get one: the ones I made on purpose were very easy to wipe off. I have had crumbling on several old vintage razors, but I believe it was oxidized steel instead of overhoning.

I have found it happens easily on some razors, like Wapis, and not others. I see it very, very rarely. Maybe the steel is a factor? When I sharpened carpenters tools it nearly always happened - the guy who taught me said it was desirable. (I do appreciate that chisels, knives and so on aren't in the same league of sharpness as razors, before the deluge begins!).

Regards,
Neil.

It is good for chisels etc when the bur is cut off on the finest finish hone. (whatever the back is polished with)

If my description is correct then to me over honing means honing too much-taking away more than necessary.

If the honing is not precise enough then remnants of the bur could remain. burs turning from both sides perhaps.
if the honing is precise then one should never get a wire edge when honing flip flop style

But, from your desription you aren't honing at the very tip - if the bevel is set, then all the plane in line with the bevel is hitting the hone at the same time - or have I got it wrong? If it's the "...very, very edge..." then the angle must have increased to lift the bevel plane off the hone - mustn't it? I know some woodworkers slightly increase the angle to remove the burr, but maybe I'm reading your description wrong.

From what I've read the formation of a burr is an indication that the tool has been sharpened sufficiently. Harder steels produce less of a burr, finer stones produce less of a burr. I'd like to know what induces the burr to stay bonded to the edge, too. I understand that honing past the formation of the edge produces a burr, but the formation of that edge must occur at a point that is not discernable within strict limitations.

In other words, how do you know that enough is enough? It's all very well saying that if honing is precise you won't get a burr, but what if one stroke past optimal results in the beginning of burr formation? Who can be that precise? Maybe billion-dollar-man eyeballs would help! I only test every 10 - 15 round laps. If you can see a burr, it must be way too much (for razors) and if you can feel it on your thumbnail it must be too much, but when did it begin?

If a micro-burr is present, how do you remove it? And is it necessary or even desirable to remove it? Is that microscopically thin cutting edge on a razor, sometimes termed a fin, in reality a form of micro-burr? Perhaps that is all stropping is - burr removal. I've seen carpenters strop chisels on their pant legs to remove the burr - from there to a leather strop isn't such a big leap. But maybe stropping isn't burr removal at all, but merely burr realignment? Many sources say that the fin is deformed by shaving, and that the purpose of the strop is realignment, or correction, of that fin. If the terms "burr" and "fin" are one and the same, than that means the burr is desirable - at a microscopic level - to enable the razor to shave properly. In which case the whole purpose of honing is to raise that microscopic burr.

It's an interesting question...!

Regards,
Neil

I've never gotten a wire edge with good razor steel. Make sure you use light strokes, though. I would NOT personally use a razor that has a tendency to form a wire edge. Fortunately, with my razors, I can't get a wire edge even if I tried to get one on purpose.