Thread: Coticule all around?

I know, I know... this probably has been discussed many many times already. The Coticule is very much the "coqueluche" of these days and a lot has been said on it.
We've read about experiments with it, how it can refine the edge of a even finer grit stone, how it can be used with slurry, diluting the slurry and with water only... a lot has been said lately and I'm very much inclined to buy one as soon as I can spare the cash. It is good value for money but it is also sorto of a gamble because no two stones are really equal in performance because they are natural stones. But that is very appealing, really...
We have also discussed the creation of hone sets that included the coticule as parto of a progression of 3 or 4. This is a setup that came up quite often: DMT 1200, BBW, Coticule and Chinese 12K for example.

But this time my question is different:
Can a Coticule be a all around stone, meaning, can it do what all the others can? Sure, the level of sharpness peaks after a while and a coticule can only get a razor "so" sharp. But can you use it to set a bevel? Can it be used in the 4K to 8K range as a settler of sharpness and then be used as a final polisher?
If not, can you think of one stone that can do all that?

Of course, time spent honing is a relevant thing but let's keep it out of the equation for the time being, okay?

Thanks!

I'm not sure that one coticule could do it all. Some coticules are great at setting a bevel with slurry, some are better at the mid range stuff. I don't know if the bevel setter could polish. I'm sure you could progress a razor right through with coticules, but i'm not sure a single stone would have it all, even with slurries. The individual hones vary so much, they have slightly different talents.
Maybe someone here has one that can though?

I've been doing the 1200, coticule w/ slurry then Chinese 12k and back to the coticule water only. Great results. If you had the patients of a saint and time meant nothing to you then you can get away with one stone of a high grit like the 12k. I have not tried the coticule w/ slurry to set the bevel because I don't have the patents of a saint and time is always short. I expect that the best for only one stone would be the coticule which may take a little longer to set the bevel and will not refine the edge as far as the 12k would. At Wood Crafters youcan get the 1200/8000 Chinese synthetic hone for #30 - 45 (not sure of the price) in place of the norton and a Chinese 12k for $20 - 35. That is about the price of a Norton 4k/8k, roughly. That would get you through until yo got a coticule and would not be lost once you did. You may find that you don't need/want the coticule at that point because that setup will do just fine and if you are not honing a blade completely every day will have appropriate cutting speed.

I am a relatively fresh owner of a combo Belgian stone. I had exactly the same questions as you and tried to use it exclusively, but:

1. it is a bit too slow for bevel setting; or even for removal of deeper pits from edges. So I added an 800 grit stone to the setup. I love the flat surfaces achieved with only few laps on this beast.

2. the gap between the BBW w/slurry and coticule w/ water is not huge but still substantial. I added my coarse Chinese 12k stone to my setup to follow the BBW and I love the results.

3. the 800 grit's scratches are ugly. While coticule w/ slurry takes care of them eventually, a few laps on a white Arkansas stone helps me achieve the goal faster.

My progression is 800 -> Arkansas -> Cot. w/ sl. -> BBW w/ sl. -> Ch12K -> Cot. w/ H20 -> 70+ on linen -> 150 on leather -> big grin


My coticule must be one of the slower cutting / better polishing ones and I LOVE it. While I could live with it as a single hone if I had to, I am glad I have more hones in my tool box. I could get more from the combo with gradual reduction of slurry with water, but I do not have to.

I use a Coticule as my main bevel setter.
I first started doing that on a pink-colored Coticule, which is clearly my fastest one. I am pretty sure that it is as fast as my DMT-E, if not faster. If that doesn't cut it, I have to drop to a DMT-F at 600 grit, but that only happens if I removed part of an edge breadknifingly (don't you love newspeak adverbs), or to remove visual chips.
More recently I started using other Coticules, to find out if they would also set a bevel within a reasonable time frame. I have tried three others so far, and they all work just fine. I still do own Coticules that I don't even think about trying those, because I know they're not fast enough. What it comes down to, is that the slurry must start to show discoloration of steel particles entering the fluid, within the first 20 or 30 laps. I also have the impression that adding a drop of detergent to the water for creating the slurry, slows down things a bit. Hence I reserve the drop of detergent for when I use the Coticule with plain water during the finishing stage.
I would like to point out, in all modesty, that I learned how to do my laps pretty fast. For me, some swiftness adds to lighter strokes.
When establishing a good bevel, I do a few slow strokes, watching the bead of slurry in front of the edge. I take in the exact stroke. That might be a rolling X or a regular 90-degree X, or another variation. Then I start to speed up. I can easily do 100 laps in 2 minutes. So I can do 500 in 10 minutes. It took me an hour when I was new at this. It makes a difference for setting a bevel.
I nearly always do one downstroke before setting the bevel on a razor. That causes the razor to duck the TPT, so I can just carry on till the TPT emerges back along the entire edge. That way I don't ever have to secondguess my bevel.

Those 4 hones all are still decent finishers too.
Where they differ, is in the maximum keenness they produce with the diluting slurry method. I have said before, and I will say again, the diluting slurry method is sports. It's like pole vault. On a good day you pass 5.95m and one a lesser day you get stuck on 5.65m.
It also depends on the razor. But I have razors in my herd that shave as good as my best, and have not seen anything but one Coticule. My success rate is about 1 out of every 4. I always practice the diluting slurry method, simply because, if it fails in sharpness, you still have a very good edge for stepping up to a next hone. One of the advantages of starting out on a Coticule with slurry, is that the bevel doesn't carry any deep scratches and is ready for a high grit synthetic hone in a search for more keenness. I usually step up to a Chosera 10K myself and it works like a charm.
But in 1 out of 4, I don't need to do any stepping up at al.

When the weather breaks in spring, and they start extracting more Coticule at Ardennes, I have made arrangements with Rob to go over there to test a variety of different stones. I plan to focus both on color as on whereabouts (Coticules are harvested from different veins, that each contain different layers as well) I hope to come up with some stones that excel in "single stone" honing, and I will pinpoint them as such to Rob, leaving it to him what he does with that information.

I like the Zen of honing on only one Coticule, but I wish not to lower my standards on the result.
Here's a great post from the past out of a great thread from the past:
http://straightrazorpalace.com/basic...tml#post130471

I hope that answers some of the questions.

Best regards,
Bart.

I plan on posting some of my thoughts on my experiences with the coticule soon. One thing I will say is that barbers I knew in Northern New Jersey twenty five years ago relied on a yellow coticule and a barber hone (Swaty or the equivalent) to maintain their razors. These were old men when I knew them and they had worked through the years when men frequently got shaves in the barber shop.

They had no Nortons, Shaptons or Choseras. I cannot say what the quality of their edges were but I can say that whatever the level of sharpness and smoothness was it was attained with a yellow coticule.

As for me, I love my coticules especially the naturals but I use the Nortons, Shaptons and Eschers where they fit in and wouldn't have it any other way.