Thread: Cant Hone!

Originally Posted by Utopian

I'm sure this will likely start a debate, but I disagree with steps 2 and 3. First, I don't think the strop has to be pulled as tightly as you imply. You want to prevent the leather from rolling the blade but the strop does not have to be pulled absolutely perfectly straight with great force to accomplish this. Second, I've experimented with stropping speed and I find that I get a much better stropping from a fairly rapid (not ridiculously so) stropping motion and the edge improvement is severely diminished if I go very slowly.

No doubt multiple opinions will follow.

I really think that a smooth rhythmic stroke is all that is needed. The more you strop correctly, the more that rhythm develops and becomes comfy. I have never found any gain in excessive speed.

I'd be interested in what stones you have and what you have tried regarding honing so far.

Lynn

Maintaining and using a straight razor takes time and practise. For many, the fact that it is a skill that needs to be mastered is the reason they do it. Unfortunately we live in a world where instant success has become the expectation. It's not possible to become an expert with a straight overnight, it does take a fair amount of trial and error, but get it right and it's very satisfying. (or so I'm told, I'm still learning)

Originally Posted by Bart

I'd be happy to check out a razor for you and hone it (if necessary) at no charge. I'm in Europe (Belgium). Maybe you're better off asking a US based member to look at it, but in case you want my assistance, just drop a PM.Bart.

I'll back Bart's offer on this side of the big Pond, If you are in the US drop me a PM...

Originally Posted by Lynn

I really think that a smooth rhythmic stroke is all that is needed. The more you strop correctly, the more that rhythm develops and becomes comfy. I have never found any gain in excessive speed.

I completely agree. I didn't write that as clearly as I should have. I was trying to counter the point made that going extremely slowly was the best way to strop. He said slow so I said faster. Smooth and rhythmic sounds like a better way to describe something in the middle.

Originally Posted by Bart

What is it with this thread?
Is it a "feed the newbie with as much as controversial information as possible"-fest??

That is why I like to direct new guys to the SRP Wiki and the honing videos by Lynn and heavydutysg right off the bat. They can do their homework at their own pace with the tried and true methods shown.

Bart is right that learning to shave and strop properly, and then do touch ups, and then full honing jobs, followed by full restorations if you want to go down that route, is definately the easiest way to learn. Not so much because it's too much to grasp all at once, but more because it's easier to pin down any given problem. If you have a razor you have honed yourself which doesn't shave well, but you know you can shave with a sharp blade, and you know you don't dull the razor by poor stropping, then you can be pretty sure the razor isn't sharp enough for you. If you try to learn everything at once, then the problem may be your honing, poor stropping, or poor shave technique. That said, I think very few of us here chose the easy path, and give advice on the "Do as I say, not as I do" philosophy. Anyone can learn from their own mistakes but it takes a wise man to learn from someone elses. Heed the advice and take the easy path. Don't be too eager. It'll all come with time and patience.
As for stropping. I find that a nice rhythmic stroke is best, but I went very slow in the begining to get a feel for when the razor was contacting the strop properly. Same goes for honing too, I suppose. Slow and steady in the begining. Then build up to the pace you find most comfortable.
Learning to strop properly first will also aid in the develpment of a proper honing stroke I think. One thing at a time is the way forward.

Connor

Oh well, in defense of the controversial - Is it?

I didnt catch any

In my own defense I see that Mr. O has been a member longer than I, knows some Acronyms, and has been honing. I assumed he has seen the usual cited sources.

He is shaving already, so in no danger of becoming bearded.



I think the best way to learn how to hone is with a microscope and face. The idea is you do not get everything at once, you progress forward toward finer, more subtle results.

A potential problem with leaving two (or I've seen three suggested) layers of electrical tape on for thw whole honing process is that you will wind up with a sharp razor, but one with a changed bevel angle or a double bevel. Thereafter if you (or someone else unsuspecting) want to hone it you either have to tape it or establish the correct bevel angle. A variation is to use the tape to get a bevel and an edge going and then remove the tape and refine the bevel to the correct 15 degrees before finishing.

Something to think about when giving advice.

Don J.

Originally Posted by maxfarce

A potential problem with leaving two (or I've seen three suggested) layers of electrical tape on for thw whole honing process is that you will wind up with a sharp razor, but one with a changed bevel angle or a double bevel. Thereafter if you (or someone else unsuspecting) want to hone it you either have to tape it or establish the correct bevel angle. A variation is to use the tape to get a bevel and an edge going and then remove the tape and refine the bevel to the correct 15 degrees before finishing.

Something to think about when giving advice.

Don J.

And which "correct" 15 degree angle is this????

Somewhere back in the deep dark archives of SRP you will find where one of the resident math geniuses here, actually measured razor angles and figured this stuff out not I....You would also find a thread where another enterprising member took one razor and honed it back by 1/16 inch increments trying to find the bevel failure angle...
Guess what, razors go from 8-22 degrees of angle and still work just fine and I bet if you really look you can find even more variance in the angles....
1 layer of tape changes the angle approximately 1/2 a degree (depending on blade and spine relationship) Not that I am saying more than one is recommended here, but even a ridicules amount of tape 5 layers would be 2 1/2 degrees so you are still most likely inside the extremes...

Originally Posted by maxfarce

A variation is to use the tape to get a bevel and an edge going and then remove the tape and refine the bevel to the correct 15 degrees before finishing.

I'm sorry, but that sound like a great way to get in trouble. Once you remove tape, the blade pivots on the rim of the bevel, causing the very edge to not longer make contact with the hone. Depending on the width of the bevel, it takes some serious bevel correction to establish a correct bevel for the new honing angle.
The only reason to start out with extra tape is during the first stages of rebuilding an entire new bevel after a regrinding job, or heavy restoration that led to the complete removal of the original bevel. This is done to compensate for flex in the blade, when pressure is applied to speed up the rebuilding process. In any case, the extra tape needs to be removed before the new bevel is completely rebuild with regular low pressure honing.

I wouldn't recommend anyone who still needs to complete his first successful honing job (and reports he has not shaved once with a straight razor) do do fancy tricks with multiple layers of tape.
You can add one layer of tape to protect the spine form wearing, or you can choose not to. It makes not a shred of difference in the final keenness of the edge, at least not that I can discern. The only important thing is to complete the entire honing with the chosen option. Yes, there are variations and exceptions. I believe they belong in the "advanced honing section".

Bart.