Thread: Need Advice for My Stainless

Hey guys, I need some advice....

I just got a NOS stainless razor, "presharpened" of course. Opened the box, shaved some arm hair and that went okay. I lathered up and stroppped, and what do you know.... won't shave whiskers worth a damn. Now call this a foolhardy plan (as I know that I could send it off to Lynn and it would come back perfect) but I've been considering honing it myself with my newb honing skills, if you could call it that.

I don't think I rolled the edge. When I received the razor it did shave arm hair. Then, while prepping for a shave, I did a pass on my right cheek before stropping to see what it was like, and it wasn't smooth by any means, and removed very little hair at that point. In fact it had me worried that it already wasn't sharp. THEN I stropped (approx 80 leather, no linen this time), and it was no better. Razor glides over the skin with very minimal hair removal. This is what I'm up against. The weird thing is that, while the razor won't shave whiskers at all, it will still shave arm/leg hair. I confirmed that today. Am I wrong in assuming that if it shaves body hair then a) the bevel should be set, and b) it just was not sharpened enough by the vendor?

My set-up thus far is a yellow coticule and slurry stone. I know from other threads, especially Bart's, that the coticule should be up to the task for this situation. Will a slurry be necessary, or will water alone do the job? What progression should I use?

Thanks in advance for the help, and if I really f this one up Lynn should be hearing from me soon.

Regards,

Ryan

.....forgot to ask if taping the spine would help matters at all......

I went and found a thread that I thought was fantastic for your question.
Check it out.
http://straightrazorpalace.com/basic...e-friodur.html

Ryan, when you say it shaves arm and leg hair I'm assuming you mean that when it is suspended above the skin you can brush the edge against the hair and the edge pops the hair off easily without coming near the surface of the skin ? If you're touching the skin it isn't demonstrating the level of sharpness as popping hair without touching the skin.

I would look at the edge under magnification and see what it looks like. If the edge/bevel looked good I would try the coticule with water only for maybe twenty round trips on the yellow and see if that improves it. If the bevel doesn't look like it is adequately set I would re-read Bart's tutorial in the Wiki on setting the bevel with the coticule and proceed from there.

Edit; I always tape the spine.

No Jimmy, it only shaves arm hair when the blade is on my skin. And unfortunately I don't have a microscope to check the bevel.

AFAIC if it doesn't shave arm hair when suspended it isn't shaving sharp. If you are familiar with the TPT and the TNT you can see how it feels with the thumb pad. If it feels keen to the TPT try the coticule with water only and do twenty round trips then feel it again. See if it will pop hair on the arm or leg. If it feels keen but doesn't pop hair then do another ten or twenty round trips and test again.

If it doesn't feel keen with the thumb pad I would try the TNT and see if it digs into the nail all the way across the blade. You may also be able to feel any possible roughness if there is any chipping or what have you that you cannot see with the naked eye. If it isn't sharp enough to pass the TNT then read Bart's tutorial and set the bevel and go from there.

BTW, forgot to mention that from reading mparker's excellent posts I have the impression that the linen will actually contribute to a sharper edge while the leather will realign the edge. So if you have linen it might pay to use it before the leather.

If it shaves arm hair, then you can assume that the bevel is complete.
BUT...
We know nothing about the actual bevel shape. Could be convexed, if whomever "presharpened" it used a pasted belt.
Could have a drifting angle, if it was "presharpened" with the spine lifted slightly above the sharpening stones (which is sometimes done to protect the spine from any wear on a new razor).

This is where the good old "Magic Marker Test" comes in handy. (you can read about it in the wiki) Basically, you color the edge with a waterproof felt tip marker(make sure it's degreased and allow the ink to dry for a minute or two). Next you take the razor to the Coticule with water for a few laps, and check if the marker is removed all the way till the apex. If not, you could add a layer of tape to the spine and check again. Some magnification comes in handy to interpret the results. Even a $5 cheap loupe will do.
If the test doesn't remove the marker at the very tip of the bevel, then it makes no sense doing any honing, other than resetting the bevel first. Maybe your Coticule with slurry is up to that, maybe not. Only one way to find out... If the slurry grays during honing, you can use the Coticule like you would use any 1K/2K hone. (After all, the garnet size of a Coticule is withing that ball park).
In case the MMT test tells you that you need to reset the bevel, I would first drag the razor, edge down, gently over the bottom of a glass jar. This removes the arm shaving capability. (check it and repeat a second "downstroke" if necessary) All you need to do now is to stay on the slurry till the entire edge nicely shaves arm hair again. If you do it that way, you won't have to question that the bevel is fully developed, by the time you finish.
Once you have a good bevel, whether you found it with the MMT or you resetted it yourself, you can raise a fresh and thin slurry on the Coticule and hone with very precize and light strokes, adding a few drops of water every 10 laps, completely washing down the slurry over a total of about 100 laps. After that, rinse the Coticule and do another 100 on water only. Except for doing bevel work, I always add a drop of dish washing soap to the honing water (I don't use a spray bottle, but add water with my fingers).
Finally, strop 60 laps on linen and 60 on clean leather and have a test shave. Depending on the Coticule, the razor and your ability to perform a good honing stroke, you have a fair shot at getting an awesome edge with this method.
If not, let us now, there's one other trick you can still try, before sending it to Lynn.

Hope this helps,
Bart.

Hey Ryan,

I've had similar experiences happen to me in the past. I tried the coticule with slurry for about 200-250 passes last night to see if I could reset the bevel on my dovo tortoise. I then followed that by some Belgian blue with slurry and hten finally coticule with water and dish soap. The razor felt somewhat sticky to my thumb but didn't cut as smoothly as I would have liked.

My main problem I think is to identify when the bevel is actually set. The whole thumbnail test never really works for me.

I tried the marker test and it all went away after 4-5 passes on the coticule with slurry. Am I just not spending enough time on the blue or something?

What do you guys think?

Sorry for HJ your thread ryan but I feel like we have a similar issue here

Hope you get yours going soon too

Dups, did you ever get an eye loupe or one of those radio shack hand held microscopes ? It really helps to be able to see the edge up close and personal. I once took an ebay razor and it failed the TPT but passed the TNT. I looked at it with my 30x eye loupe and it was all scalloped on the bevel. Needed to be re-set.

My friend randydance said,"The purpose of the 1000 grit is to remove nicks and straighten/shape an edge. For that you use your eyes and the Thumb Nail Test (TNT), not the Thumb Pad Test. The edge should be free of nicks and the bevel should go all the way to the edge. If you are using a hand held microscope then the bevel will appear as one color, if there are two bevels, old and new, then the light reflects off the bevel at different angles and appears as two colors. The scratch pattern should also be uniform for both the length and width of the bevel. When you have that then move on to the 4000, but not before".

You need magnification to see that.... at least I do. The coticule with slurry is I guess equivalent to the 1,000 grit or thereabouts I guess depending on your stone. If that is what you have to set the bevel with it will have to do. Here is where I got my eye loupe thanks to Kaptain Zero. Try it you'll like it.

I never got the thumb nail working for me, but I've had razors shave me really smoothly.

I just tried some more passes on the coticule with slurry. I tried some passes with just plain water and in 4 passes all the marker was gone from the edge.

How many passes on the blue should I do after that? light or heavy slurry?

thanks