Thread: How many strokes?

Imagine you just bought a lot of 5 vintage ebay razors, all made by different well respected manufacturers. Each of them is in pretty good condition... no warped blades, minimal hone wear, no edge damage, etc. Maybe a little rust that you've sanded off and then polished quickly and now they look pretty good. However, none of the edges are sharp, they are all pretty dull.

Imagine you were going to now hone all 5 using a DMT 1200, Norton 4k/8k, and finish with a chinese 12k.

I know every razor needs a different number of strokes, but in an effort gauge the rough ballpark, how many strokes per hone would you estimate the easiest razor to hone would get? How about the hardest (longest) to hone of the 5?

How about if the hones at your disposal were now a DMT 1200, a belgian BBW/coticule, and a chinese 12k? How many strokes min / max would you estimate for this average lot of razors on these hones?

It is getting the bevels set that is the work here....
Once the bevels are sharp, go in 10 laps sets until the razors meet the sharpness test for each level or use the Norton pyramids until you start passing the sharpness tests...

Honing a razor is very straight forward once you have the bevel set...

Originally Posted by gssixgun

It is getting the bevels set that is the work here....
Once the bevels are sharp, go in 10 laps sets until the razors meet the sharpness test for each level or use the Norton pyramids until you start passing the sharpness tests...

Honing a razor is very straight forward once you have the bevel set...

I guess that's a main part of the question. How many strokes would you guess it would take to set the bevel on the DMT 1200 for the razors as I described? I'm just looking for a ball park estimation based on people's experience. Something like "well, I wouldn't expect it to be any less than 10, and if it takes more than 50 you're doing something wrong." (just made those numbers up, don't know if they're reasonable). Something like that for each hone I've mentioned. Just to get the idea. I want to know when I've done so many strokes that there is clearly something wrong if I'm not noticing a change, that's really what I'm getting at.

Here's what I'm guessing it would be like:

DMT 1200, 10 to 50 strokes
Norton 4k, 10 to 35 strokes
Norton 8k, 10 to 35 strokes
Chinese 12k, 50 to 100 strokes

I'm not sure that these numbers are in fact reasonable, but it's an example of what I'm after. This way I can look at the rough numbers and say, well Jeez, if I'm at 65 strokes on the Norton 8k and I'm not seeing a change, maybe something is wrong with my stroke, my ability to perceive the test, my bevel, etc. I just don't know how many is too many for each hone. Especially the BBW/coticule as I just got it.

Make sense? I know I'm asking the wrong question, because it's always depending on the razor itself and they are all different, but I mean there must be SOME ballpark right? If I say I did 500 strokes on the chinese 12k, I think most would agree "that's too much for any razor!" But what if I did 250? Still too much? How about 150? 100? 75? 50? Same with the other end of the spectrum, if I said I did 2 passes on the chinese 12k, most would say "that didn't do much of anything!" What if I did 5 passes? 10? 20? See what I mean?

Its more art than science. I keep at it in 10 lap sets until its done or close. Use the magic marker test to help.

Setting the bevel is the most important and easiest step if you ask me. There is no worry of over honing here, just hone until the bevel is set.

Now how do you know when that is? Well some people say you should be able to pop hairs off the 1.2K, that may be in some cases, but the best test in my opinion is the TNT. Just start honing and every now and then perform the TNT and judge the edge. It's hard to give a range on bevel setting because it would be useless to you. It could take from 20 to 200 laps depending on the blade and stroke so the best advice is to just go at it.

I use the DMT for bevel setting and I just use the marker test and TNT. To be honest I only loosely count my strokes.

Now for the rest I would suggest doing some pyramids which you can find a lot of info on in the wiki. I personally use a BBW and Coticule after the DMT and with those I don't count my laps, I just hone until it;s sharp.

set bevel average 120 laps once that is done 50 norton 4k 20 8k. i then do 50 bbw 50 yellow razor always shaves i used this method on 7 old razors. you do 504k and 20 8k once bevel is set and your done after that its up to you ch12k i'd do 150 it won't do any harm

Reminds me of how many wells does it take to make a river ? One if it's deep enough. That DMT 1200 is such an efficient bevel setter. If the edge is chipped up I do some circles and paint brush strokes with a little pressure and check it with the eye loupe or microscope every so often. I might even do a couple of very light breadknifing strokes. If it doesn't need that I just do the x pattern until it looks good under magnification and passes the TNT. Of course I began with the marker to see how I need to adjust my stroke.

They are all different but I have found that within 2 or 3 pyramids ( as in the SRP Wiki) I am usually ready to move past the 8k to either shaving or on to a higher grit finishing stone. With the coticule I would typically do bbw with slurry until the TPT is good and the hairs will pop and then the yellow with water only. Not sure how many strokes, Whatever it takes.

Edit; When I say that the bevel "looks good" under magnification I mean, as randy dance taught me,that it is complete from the top of the bevel to the very edge and that it is all the same color with a consistent scratch pattern. It may or may not be the same width for the length of the blade. That is desirable but depends on the grind and how uniform the blade is to begin with.