Thread: New naniwa stones, using them

Originally Posted by VeeDubb65

Well, I've seen you post buckets of good advice so far, so could expand on that post a little?

You say there's a an optimum stone set for each of those scenarios. I'd really like your opinions on each. No details, unless you feel like sharing, but just a run-down of what you would put together for each would be immensely helpful and interesting.

Originally Posted by zepplin

I second that question, also. Perhaps a person may have too many stones, or choices. Life was simple when I had my 12K DMT, BBW, and finished with the coticule. More choices confuses me.

Steve

Ahhhhhhhh see there is the rub guys, that list would simply be my opinion as a Razor Restorer and as somebody that really can't wrap their brain around natural stones at all (my OCD does not allow for the variable grit range)
So my list would be very bias, it is actually a great thing we have here on the forum, somebody posts their problem, and they get several different opinions, You get Lynn's and mine which we do things fairly similar, you get Randy, Bud, Utopian & Jimmy's and they have a little more open opinion, you get the coticule master himself Bart who gives a whole different perspective... MParker & Alan who have put together huge amounts of info on this forum for everyone to learn from... Howard and Old School who can talk rocks for hours on end...
I am sure I am forgetting quite a few people who help immensely on honing threads... (I just woke up give me a break) With all that knowledge answering threads it gives each person many choices on which way to go....
If the OP starts with what information they are after, it just narrows it down much better....

There was a thread just this week where the OP was asking about why the edge was not biting into the stone, after 10 or so posts all about the merits and detriments of taping the spine and the use of double bevels... I finally asked the questions of razor??? stone??? and where in the cycle was the razor starting???
We all found out that this was a complete waste of time as the razor was a Paki, the stone was a 10k and he would have been there until next year trying to sharpen it....

I talk about honing a lot because it is my hobby. I have a lot of those green chiclets and most of them are from greeting new guys and steering them to useful threads for beginners and to the Wiki. Not because I necessarily know what I'm talking about.

What I do know comes from a combination of what I have learned reading the posts Lynn, Glen and the other members Glen mentioned and finally a lot of practice at my hobby.

In the little over a year that I have been practicing honing I have accumulated over 100 razors and honed most but not all of them. I went from mixed results to pretty much consistently getting them shave ready.

Although I listen to anyone who has something to contribute Lynn's opinions carry the most weight for me. He hones more razors in a week or two than I have in my entire life. He has been doing it for years with about all of the hones that have come down the pike.

So I don't know if anyone is old enough to remember the commercial about,"My broker is E.F. Hutton, and when EF Hutton talks I listen" but for me the same can be said for Lynn Abrams. When he talks I listen. Thanks to all of the members who make this website a valuable learning tool and an enjoyable place to be.

Asking the questions about the razor, hones, what has been done so far and the persons ability are key to providing effective assistance to new guys or those having problems.

A checklist might go something like this.

Razor:
1. New or vintage
2. Shape of the razors edge...frown, straight, smiley
3. Carbon or SS
4. PIC available
5. Mfg, model, size

Hones:
1. Which do you have and size
2. Lapped
3. Refreshed before each honing session
4. Used dry, wet, lather, liquid soap

Honing history:
1. Previously shaving sharp razor or old/dull
2. Which stones have you used so far, the sequence of hones and how many laps on each ( if possible)
3. What honing tests have been used
4. Shave tested

Sharpening skill level:
1. Brand new to sharpening anything
2. Knife sharpening backround
3.Honed other razors successfully or not

You guys should add to this, I am on my first cup of coffee.

i just add what i know, ask questions when i dont. i had the joy of talking to beberlin in the chat last night and he said i ask too many questions. hes a funny guy

and randy, if i wrote out all the answers to the questions you asked before stating my inteded question, id probably forget what it was i meant to ask.

This is really turned into an interesting thread.

I tend to look at things this way...... If you hone 10 razors on a stone or set of stones, you have that experience. If you hone 100 using a set of stones you have that experience and on and on and on. Actually the more razors you hone, the more you get used to what you will need to do to a razor to get it shaving which can be a factor too. The point is that with someone wanting to learn, I have an opinion on which stones are the easiest based on working with people one on one and considering all the stones I have tried and the amount of razors I've honed. You all have the same thing going on for you. The bottom line is getting a razor sharp. The other bottom line is getting every razor sharp every time (not counting sub-standard).

This is the beauty of the forum I believe. Look at how many razors there are and how many people like which ones. Look at all the stones that are out there and imagine the possibilities. I learned from a guy who had honed thousands of razors and what he showed me worked every time. It sure didn't for me until I had honed that many razors.

This is a sport where you really have to be open to all the possibilities on getting a razor sharp enough to shave. Getting one sharp enough to shave or getting one sharp enough to shave when the person is in front of you and wants it now can be very different. In any case there is so much to learn if we can just be open to all the possibilities. New guys like with shaving usually want to get it down now and learn to soften up the stroke and even out the pressure with guidance from you guys.

Remember how tough it was when you were new and really got hooked? This is the beauty of you guys who experiment and who just love to hone or who have HAD or whatever to be able to say, I have done this with 250 or 500 or 1000 razors and it really works. Not what you think.....what you have done and what stones you have used and how many strokes based on the condition of the razor.

I don't know if this makes sense to you guys but your contribution here and in the forums is always top notch.

Thanks,

Lynn

Originally Posted by English

Well Lynn,

I agree that a yellow Belgian coticule in the correct hands can put a shaveable edge on a blade that has already had the bevel set. It just takes time and patience.

The Naniwa Chosera also does this. It is so efficient that it will easily and quickly put a fine polished edge on a bevel that has been set on an 800 grit Naniwa superhone. I'm not sure that adding mid range hones does anything to the finished edge. I'm not even sure it speeds the process up. It takes minutes to do this with the Chosera.

Perhaps this is the difference between it and the ordinary "superhone" range.

Needless to say, you don't need any pyramid process as you only use the one hone. You do need to clean the hone however as it gets dirty quite quickly as it removes the 800 grit grind pattern. I found it took more time cleaning the hone than actually honing.

I can see a use for some of the range of superstone grits if you repair old razors but for Mr Average, I would have thought a 1000 a 5000 and a 12000 set would be more than adequate.

I can only give you conclusions based on testing hundreds of razors. I have played with the Super 3K and 10K as well as compared the Super 10K and the Super 12K. Based on the results of using the stones from a standpoint of ease of use and consistency of results, I base the opinions given. I have also compared using these stones with the pyramid method at multiple starting points and from Glen's method. I am also experimenting right now testing the Chosera 10K against the Super 10K and 12K. As I have only done about 50 razors so far, I will hold off until I really feel that the differences I see make a difference.

Funny you should mention this, but I tried about 100 razors leaving the 8K out of the rotation and liked the results with using it better. What was really interesting to me was that I could drop down to the Super 220 or 1K to do some corrections and re-set bevels and then go to the 5K, 8K and 12K routines with equally good results. This has worked very well on almost 200 re-hone or ebay special type razors.

It would be really great when folks talk about this type of thing if they could also indicate which hones they tried what razors on, along with how many razors, brands, condition etc. and lay out their honing routines on them so that we could benefit from the efforts. I am never sure if someone is speculating or forming an opinion from actually having tried all these stones and comparing them to one another or what. The new guys would really benefit from this.

Thanks,

Lynn

Hello OutlawSkinnyD, Just wanted to inquire where you purchased your Naniwa honing stones. Since I am new to this and not familiar with the pyramid system could you give me process??? From what you have listed here: 5k stone 7 strokes then to the 8k stone 10 strokes; next, back to the 5k stone for 5 strokes and then the 8k for 10 strokes; next, back to the 5k stone 5 strokes, then back to the 8k for 10 strokes; next back to the 5k stone for 3 strokes then to the 8k stone for 5 strokes and finally back to the 5k stone for one stroke and to the 8k stone for the last 10 strokes to finish the pyramid. Is the correct fopt what you have listed in this post??? Thank you for a reply asap. Sonny082. You can e-mail me direct by that at yahoo dot com. Thank you again.