Thread: Help! I've honed with a coticule, and I can't get sharp...

I think it's known that I'm neutral, apathetic even, on the argument of natural versus synthetic hones. Lately, I've found that a DMT8E, a Norton 4/8K, a Shapton 16K, & a Shapton 30K is all I need to get an edge that satisfies my needs. However, being enveloped in this hobby of wetshaving, I've managed to accumulate various hones discussed on this forum. I have a fondness for the Chinese 12K, and have had good luck with a Müeller Thuringian stone. Heck, the Dragon's Tongue that I got is doing alright too.

The coticule is a whole other story. I cannot use the coticule that I own to get anything close to a good edge. It simply drives me to frustration each and every time I attempt to use it – anywhere in a progression. My latest battle came from attempting Bart's One Coticule Honing technique. I had hoped this would finally show me the worth of this coticule. Alas, it was the latest failure. No matter how many laps I tried, I could never get it to start cutting hairs effectively on my arm or legs. It would catch a couple, but never would mow them down. I never made it through the technique, as the edge was not up to standard.

I've attempted to use the coticule with a heavy slurry, light slurry, and water alone. Nothing puts a keen edge onto a blade. I know it's cutting steel, as the heavy slurry was blackening. A lighter slurry and water only improved it, but sloped off rapidly (and still wasn't cutting arm hair sufficiently). I did so many first rounds (over two days) of Bart's new method that I lost count. I think I was in the mid to mid-high area (10-15 out of 20 rounds) when I gave up.

So, I pulled out a DMT8EE, did 10 laps, and could already notice the sharpness level improve. I had a nagging defect (small chip) in the edge that wasn't coming out, so I backed down the DMTs to clean up the edge, reset the bevel, and prepare for refinement. I completed a progression from a DMT8E, DMT8EE, Dragon's Tongue (learning its properties), lapped Spyderco UF (further experimentation), and finally completed with the Shapton 16K + 30K hones. Easy day.

So what the heck is wrong with this hone! I just want to know if it's my honing style and capability, my maintenance of its surface, or if I just managed to get a “bad” rock.

I'm posting photos of it to help out anyone willing to read this thread, and offer up some advice.

my coticule set


my coticule


my coticule surface -- dry


my coticule surface -- wet

It looks like a nice stone. Have you tried shaving with the razor? I know that my razor doesn't 'feel' all that sharp but it shaves quite nicely. It's a different feeling from what I usually shave with.

hey, if you'd like you can send that coticule to me, i'd be happy to see if i can figure out what's wrong

Same here!

Originally Posted by Del1r1um

hey, if you'd like you can send that coticule to me, i'd be happy to see if i can figure out what's wrong

Originally Posted by Dups

Same here!

A similar idea has crossed my mind.

Originally Posted by Dups

It looks like a nice stone. Have you tried shaving with the razor? I know that my razor doesn't 'feel' all that sharp but it shaves quite nicely. It's a different feeling from what I usually shave with.

I didn't. Based on the feedback I was getting from TPT, and the lack of cutting on the arm/leg hairs, it would have been abyssmal.

Does a coticule's results on these tests differ that much from other hones?

I'm sure you've read that not all coticules are alike. Lynn has posted that he has used a coticule with water only as a finisher following the 4/8 Norton. Perhaps trying a different razor might yield satisfactory results. I would be interested to see what would happen if you set a bevel on a DMT or whatever and than used the Norton and follow that with the coticule and water only. See if it improves the edge. In spite of the darkened slurry you may have a hard coticule more suited to finishing.

xChris,

When it comes to shaving arm hair of a Coticule with slurry, it depends largely on the particular stone, how well the edge performs at shaving arm hair.
As soon as the razor shows any responsiveness to the shave arm hair test, you're nearly finished on the slurry. You can try about 20 light laps with the X-stroke and see if that improves the test results. If not, it's fine. I just means that you hit the maximum level you're going to get off the slurry. I have several Coticules that will only barely shave arm hair at that level. The only important thing is, that you make sure that the entire edge (toe - middle -heel) has reached that level.

At that moment, it's time to proceed to the next stage. In my "one Coticule method" that would be attaching the layer of tape. In a more traditional progression that could be the Belgian Blue, or any other hone capable of refining the edge.

I've been making a video about my "one Coticule method", I only need to figure out how to upload it to youtube.

I'm sorry you ran into trouble with something I suggested. Why didn't you post in the original thread? I specifically put it there to assist with these kind of problems, and it sure isn't meant to be a "good news only"-show.

I still hope it works out for you.

Best regards,
Bart.

can't wait to see your videos Bart! I'm still not sure my slurry is the right consistency.

Originally Posted by JimmyHAD

I'm sure you've read that not all coticules are alike. Lynn has posted that he has used a coticule with water only as a finisher following the 4/8 Norton. Perhaps trying a different razor might yield satisfactory results. I would be interested to see what would happen if you set a bevel on a DMT or whatever and than used the Norton and follow that with the coticule and water only. See if it improves the edge. In spite of the darkened slurry you may have a hard coticule more suited to finishing.

Oh yes, I'm aware of variance in the coticules -- any natural stone for that matter. I'll try the progression that you suggest. If I recall correctly the last time I maybe tried this (Henckels Friodur 8/8), I got a similar result of a less keen edge coming off of the coticule. Though, I don't recall if that was simply based on TPT or a shave as well.

My lack of experience/time with the coticule is obviously showing. I'm potentially misinterpreting the feedback that I'm getting from the tests, and not following through to a test shave for validation.

Originally Posted by Bart

xChris,

When it comes to shaving arm hair of a Coticule with slurry, it depends largely on the particular stone, how well the edge performs at shaving arm hair.
As soon as the razor shows any responsiveness to the shave arm hair test, you're nearly finished on the slurry. You can try about 20 light laps with the X-stroke and see if that improves the test results. If not, it's fine. I just means that you hit the maximum level you're going to get off the slurry. I have several Coticules that will only barely shave arm hair at that level. The only important thing is, that you make sure that the entire edge (toe - middle -heel) has reached that level.

At that moment, it's time to proceed to the next stage. In my "one Coticule method" that would be attaching the layer of tape. In a more traditional progression that could be the Belgian Blue, or any other hone capable of refining the edge.

I've been making a video about my "one Coticule method", I only need to figure out how to upload it to youtube.

I'm sorry you ran into trouble with something I suggested. Why didn't you post in the original thread? I specifically put it there to assist with these kind of problems, and it sure isn't meant to be a "good news only"-show.

I still hope it works out for you.

Best regards,
Bart.

Bart,

I didn't post in that thread because I've been having problems with all methods related to the coticule. So, I didn't feel it was appropriate to post in that dedicated thread.

Rather, I felt there was something more that I was missing with this particular piece of earth. So, I figured I'd give you guys have a shot at pushing me in the right direction. If this doesn't get it, there will be some hones for sale soon.

Thanks for clarifying about the edge's cutting performance on stage one. Looks like I'll have to find a sacrificial razor to try this out again.