Thread: What comes first? Coticule or Blue Belgian

Someone confused me today,
posting that he uses the coticule first and then the blue belgian afterwards.
Explanation given was that the coticule might be finer and sharper but the blue belgian has round abrasives.

What do you think about it?

I think you've stumbled on Bart's method...

For working with slightly damaged blades, he says you can use the Coticule with slurry as a fast cutting bevel setter, then the BBW with slurry as a refiner/polisher, then finishing on the Coticule with water only as the...well...finisher. It's all very technical and confusing, but it seems to work.

The confusion happens, it appears, when people try to put grit numbers on the BBW and Coticule...it doesn't seem to work that way with natural stones. At least, that's the impression that I get.

I used to treat the natural like a Norton 4/8 and it worked alright. Then I read Bart's post that the bbw would add keenness and I tried that and found that it does. So I am back and forth between my old method and mixing it with Bart's process.

The thing is that with Bart's method you start with the yellow with slurry to set the bevel and then go to the blue with slurry to refine and sharpen the edge. Then the yellow with water to finish. If upon finishing you feel the edge may be smoother but you've sacrificed some of the keenness you can go back to the blue and pick up the keenness again. Then if desired back to the yellow/water for a few strokes. At least from memory that is the way I understand it.

I have also taken my A#1 natural and with a razor that already had the bevel set on another stone gone to the bbw/slurry and followed with the yellow/water and got it where I wanted it to be. Many roads to the same destination.

It came up on the german board
but your explanation makes more sense.
Thank you!

Got to dig into Bart's method.

I agree with the other posters.

Your question is a little complicated for the poll, though, so I didn't answer.

It's not really realistic to set the bevel on the BBW, so if you are talking about a razor that needs the bevel set, and you only have the bbw/coti, then the coticule with slurry is first to set the bevel.

If, however, you are talking about a razor that you've already set the bevel on using another stone, then it still depends on which method you are using. Traditionally, the BBW with slurry is used first to "sharpen" the edge, and then the coticule with water is used to polish/smooth out the edge. But Bart's recent research has now shown that the coticule can pretty much do it all, and there really isn't a reason to even use the BBW at all. His current method is undergoing further testing by a number of members here, though, and depending on everyone's findings, I guess it's still subject to change, although many of us have verified that his coticule only honing works great.

I say the coticule is the first hone. And then if that does not work then use the BBW. And if that doesn't work then give Don at SRD a call and he will hook you up with some stuff that will work

Originally Posted by pjrage

I agree with the other posters.

Your question is a little complicated for the poll, though, so I didn't answer.

It's not really realistic to set the bevel on the BBW, so if you are talking about a razor that needs the bevel set, and you only have the bbw/coti, then the coticule with slurry is first to set the bevel.

If, however, you are talking about a razor that you've already set the bevel on using another stone, then it still depends on which method you are using. Traditionally, the BBW with slurry is used first to "sharpen" the edge, and then the coticule with water is used to polish/smooth out the edge. But Bart's recent research has now shown that the coticule can pretty much do it all, and there really isn't a reason to even use the BBW at all. His current method is undergoing further testing by a number of members here, though, and depending on everyone's findings, I guess it's still subject to change, although many of us have verified that his coticule only honing works great.

It stands to reason that it would. It is hard to believe but it is true that only recently was it realized that the BBW had honing properties of it's own. The proof of this is illustrated in the labeled "Old Rock" and "Deep Rock" coticules that I have. They are both natural yellow/blue with the label completely covering (glued) to the blue side. The old barbers and others did what they had to do with the yellow. So it can be done with the yellow alone but I love to use both together as the blue with the slurry is a formidable stone.

I voted the Belgian blue first.. but that depends on whether you need to reset the bevel or not and if you have a DMT-E or not...

But off course you could use a coticule if you like to...

sooo many options... I need more razors to try them all..

Maarten

I don't do anything yet, because I don't have my BBW and Coticule. I expect them to arrive today or tomorrow.

In anticipation of that event, I have honed 2 blades I bought off Ebay on my DMT 1200 to get the edge where I want it to be. They are in very good shape.

Since I have read through "the Coticule Chronicles" and "One Coticule Honing", I do have a plan to experiment. The first trial will be to progress from the BBW dry, then wet. The coticule dry then wet. I intend to use tape on the spine. Then strop and shave with each.

Next I want to try something I call an inverted pyramid (it seemed to work with other hones). I would use the Coticule and the Chinese 12K each with just water. I would start by doing 5 strokes on each, then decrease it by 1 each round. The idea is that each has a slightly different scratch pattern. By using both, each might polish out the scratches by the other. Leaving me with a blade more polished than previously.

Next I will add another layer of tape and then proceed to make a double bevel using the coticule with water. Strop, shave and see what I like or even if I notice a difference. Essentially, I am evaluating the double bevel with the coticules scratch pattern against the 2 prior.

Then, if I haven't thoroughly confused myself, I will do an inverted pyramid (starting at 3 due to the shorter surface) with the Chinese 12K and coticule (just water).

Up to this point, the best shave I have had has been on a French frameback and finishing with an inverted pyramid on the Chinese 12K and the Apart hone (single bevel).

Once I have decided which of the coticule methods works best for me. I will go back and compare to the frameback. Then I will probably try the coticule method on me second frameback blade and compare.

That ought to keep me busy (if not out of trouble).

Typically, I go from my 1K to the BBW with slurry to BBW with water to coticule with water, but that's just because I find it to be easier to set bevels on the 1K most of the time (I tend to work with fuller grinds; if I'm working on a full hollow, I might use the coticule with slurry instead of the 1K).