Thread: Honing Merit Badge

I think I may be ready to take the test.

At this point, I've successfully sharpened about a dozen razors, and I just restored one that had a significant nick in its edge. I'm using a Norton 4/8K followed by a table top strop with .5 micron paste and a regular leather strop.

I had two discoveries that paved the way. The most important one was giving up the various hanging hair tests. It's just not reliable, and I didn't want to keep going back and forth between honing and shaving. I practiced and taught myslef the two barber's tests (fingernail and wet thumb), and I find them much more reliable. I leave the Norton after I pass the fingernail test. I run the thumb test at the end of a job and I can actually feel the edge getting sharper after each set.

The second thing was I had too high a standard in the shave test. To simplify things I had minimized the use of regular str8s while I was learning sharpening and did most of my shaving with a Feather. In the shave test I would compare the regular razor to the Feather and could never meet that standard, so every shave was finished with the Feather.

I was getting very discouraged, until Chris Moss told me that he had done the same thing and found that most razors couldn't be sharpened to the level of a Feather. He also confirmed that they drag a little more. That information totally turned me around. I just started judging razors on their own standard, and I became successful. The razors that pass my test now are really good for shaving.

I find that when a razor really feels sharp in the thumb test, it's ready to shave. I haven't had one fail recently.

I found using the Norton a little messy, so I'm experimenting with using pasted strops as much as possible. I'm going to set up a four sided one with 6, 3, 1, and .25 pastes. The 6/3 should be like the 4/8K according to Norton. I can then go through the 1 and .5 I'm already using. The .5 is usually enough, but I'm going to try the .25 to see if I can get any improvement. Classic Shaving says there should be. This kind of system will let me work at my desk instead of making a mess in the bathroom and basement.

I'm still confused what I should feel when testing with the fingernail and ball of your thumb. I have razors that feel sharp, but won't shave, yet.

Classicshaving.com has a detailed description of both tests, but I'll tell you what I look for.

The fingernail test tells you when an edge has formed and you can come off the stone. The razor will not be ready for shaving. The first thing I try is to move the razor sideways. If that happens, it's dull and you need to work it at 4K until it starts grabbing. If the razor grabs, is smooth, but you feel bumpiness, you have a nick right where the bump happens. If it grabs but feels rough, you need to hone on the 8K stone. If the razor feels like it's digging in and is totally smooth you're ready for stropping.

I use the thumb test constantlywhen stropping, and you can actually feel the razor getting sharper. Remember you're moving the thumb sideway and just barely grazing the edge. The razor has to be totally balanced in your hand and pointing up so you don't cut yourself. If the thumb moves smoothly you need a lot more stropping (maybe with a linnen or .5 micron paste). As the edge improves, you'll feel the razor grab the thumb and keep it from moving across the blade. When the edge is really good, you'll actually feel the edge and the razor will move with the finger. It may also ring or emit a soft shaving sound. Once you start feeling the edge, it reaches the maximum very fast, so I won't do more than 5 swipes on the strop at a time.

I started out practicing with a Feather just so I could get the feel of a good edge. I suppose you could use a single edge razor blade. Once you learn that feeling you'll always know when the edge is ready.

Originally Posted by Rob

I'm still confused what I should feel when testing with the fingernail and ball of your thumb. I have razors that feel sharp, but won't shave, yet.

The first thing I try is to move the razor sideways. If that happens, it's dull and you need to work it at 4K until it starts grabbing.

Across the edge of the nail, or across the flat?

The thumbnail test is done across the flat of the nail about half way between the tip and cuticle. The thumbnail should be moist.

[quote="RobAcross the edge of the nail, or across the flat?[/quote]

Thanks for the info on the tests. I have a few questions though. I've been using a straight for about 2 months now and get good shaves. I've finally gotten to the point where I usually don't cut myself shaving and the quality of the straight shaves is on par with my DE shaves. However, I still feel that I'm not getting the razor to its optimal sharpness. My razor passes the fingernail test easily, but not the thumb test. I've stoped the blade quite a bit and the razor still does not dig into my thumb and easily moves sideways. The razor shaves from okay to good, but not as well as I'd like. I'm not sure if I need to hone more or if something else is wrong. I've done a ton of honing over the past two months and think that my technique is at least okay. When I finished honing this blade, it easily passed the fingernail test.

I'm thinking maybe my stop is the problem. It is very old and I've just used it without any cleaning or conditioning. The leather is generally smooth (except for the bottom 4-5 inches where the leather is rough). Is the strop the problem? Should I clean and condition it? Can I use a general leather cleaner, such as for furnture and boots, or do I need a different product for cleaning? I think my strop technique is okay. I feel the sucking of the blade mentioned in another thread. Well, I feel that I've made great progress with learning straight shaving, and now get good shaves, but I still feel that I'm groping in the darkin search of the perfectly sharp blade. I'm not sure what I need to do to start improving again.

Thanks for reading all this and for any help you can proivide! Bob

If you're going to clean the strop, use Goop/Gojo (as has been said before). Make sure NOT to use the versions with grit added. As for the rest, is your beard well prepped? If you are getting a good comfortable close shave, then perhaps all you need is more practice. That and maybe some different soaps and creams and brushes and...

Something can't be right here. Can anyone explain this?

In a topic where the disucssion is "can you get a straight razor too sharp", there are a plethora of responses indicating that it's true.... you can get straight razors too sharp to comortably shave.

Now there is indication of some agreement that a straight razor cannot be made as sharp as a feather razor.

So, either one of these two generalizations above is false -or- feather razors are too sharp to shave comfortably.

Any ideas?

My best razors are sharp enough to shave easily and comfortably with and against the grain with no more prep than a quick splash-wash to the face with warm water and a good lathering. If a good full stroke against the grain under my chin doesn't leave it smooth as a baby's butt without discomfort, I set it aside or more work and pick up another because it's not shave ready in my opinon.

I like the wet thumb test, too. If the razor doesn't immediately grab and bite the the slightest movement and feather touch, it isn't ready for me. If I feel any sensation at all other than the rubbery bite of the blade cleanly and effortless deepening it's grip as I slide my thumb across it ever so gently, it's not ready.

I don't dare run the blade along my thumb like that using the weight of the razor, itself, though. Never used a feather razor, though, so I can't compare them.

That's at least part of the problem. You should not use the tumbnail test after stropping only the thumb test. You thumbnail will dull the razor.

The thumbnail test tells you when to get off the stone, and you can't use it after that.

If you continue to have trouble with the strop after you stop using the thumbnail test, try using a pasted strop with .5 micron paste. It really reduces how much stropping you need to do.

Originally Posted by bob03

I've stoped the blade quite a bit and the razor still does not dig into my thumb and easily moves sideways.

It's not impossible for everyone to be right. "Too sharp" can be a matter of opinion and what you're used to.

I'll give you an example. I recently shaved with a Merkur slant DE using Feather platinum blades. By every test I tried, those blades are sharper than anything I've seen, including the Feather str8. The Merkur slant in known for being one of the most aggressive razors. If anything would be too sharp, it would be that combination. In fact, I nicked myself within seconds of starting to shave because that blade caught a slight blemish. That's supposed to be one of the characteristics of a too sharp blade.

However, I made an immediate adjustment by reducing pressure even below the weight of the razor. The rest of the shave was incredibly smooth and nick free. I could hardly feel the razor, and I got a completely clean shave with only two passes instead of three. And I didn't start to stubble up for 9 hours. The best I've ever done with a str8 (the Feather) is 8 hours. So, it appears that this shave was closer.

Too sharp will always include an element of opinion, but you can compensate for it. I do find the Feather to be sharper than a regular str8, including those prepared for me by our honemeisters. But because of that sharpness, I can reduce the pressure to almost nothing and have less drag on the razor. The benefit is more comfort. At the same time, the extra sharpness gives me a closer shave.

I did the pressureless shaving naturally with the Feather str8 because I'm a long time DE user and pessureless shaving was second natue to me. A seasoned str8 shaver might try using the Feather with pressure like a regular str8 and find it is too sharp for him. I know I regularly see complaints here about somene using a DE and cutting themselves up. Pressure is most of the reason. The rest is blade angle. A DE shouuld be used with a smaller blade angle, but it will work with a much wider range of angles without cutting you. You can get almost perpendicular to the skin, and then you start scraping, which produces tremendous irritation. So, there's a good reason why str8 shavers complain.

I've come around to the pointof view that there's no such thing as too sharp if you compensate for it. To find out, I'm going to start using a .25 micron paste with my razors, which is supposed to make the edge too sharp.

Originally Posted by PapaBull

Something can't be right here. Can anyone explain this?