Thread: Honing and STUCK on a plateau!!

I am having a problem getting results on a 6/8th's Soligen, after I get a good hair popping bevel on my lower grit stone[bevel setting] when I go to my 8K and start polishing the edge won't cut hair either HHT or SHT? I tried to shave with it but it seems to need to be stropped twice during the shave and only cuts well for a short while?? I have a norton 220/100 and a Nortone 4K/8K and am leveling them with a DMT continious 325Gr. stones, thanks to Howard Schechter of the perfect edge, He let me lay-away them other a period of time because of my very limited income, THANKS HOWARD!! Now, I have used Lynns both conservative pyramid and the more agressive pyramid with as light and even a stroke as I can use while keeping the blade flat and even. I did try to polish on the 8K, final polish that is, useing 20 strokes heel leading, 20 toe leading, 20 flat across, and 20 X patern strokes to get good coverage of the edge, and I"m wondering, over honing question aside, is it possible that a Soligen razor could just be a bad shaving[G forbid!!] or should I just chalk it up to my ever STEEPENING learning curve?? [I"ll be more than willing to accept that as an answer]
I hope I was clear enough, wordy as this question was.
Thanking you all in advance, to Lynn A. and everyone at SRP!!
tinkersd of SRP!

Don't get hung up over the tests. There is one, and only one, test that matters, the shave.If you've put a good edge on it to start with, all you are going to do with finer hones is perfect and polish that edge. I'm sure Glen, Lynn, and alll the other honemeisters will agree with that.

While it is true that the real test is in the shave it is also true that there must be some definitive indication as to when it is time to move from one step of the process to the next. I am sure that each of us who hone have a specific way of determining this. I found long ago that using the TPT worked pretty good and the razor would pop hair ok but wouldn't shave as well as I liked. I watched this thread in the wiki Straight Razor Place Forums - View Profile: ToxIk and then tried my index finger. WOW! what a difference it made. I was always "just short" of that sharpness I was looking for in each step. My index finger is way more sensitive than my thumb and when I move from the 8K to the paste and then the strop, the blade pops my fine gray hair with ease, and shaves wonderfully. You are definately on the right track and I am sure that you will figure it out. You might also want to get a klunker to experiment with. Sharpen it - dull it - sharpen it again, etc, etc. Then once you have YOUR technique down you can use it on your wonderful daily razor.


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Ray

To start with you might take some black magic marker and apply it to the edge. Do a few strokes and see if with a normal x stroke the marker is uniformly removed from the edge. If it is then you are alright with that stroke. If not you will have to use a stroke that does remove the marker and stick with that stroke throughout the process.

Staying with one stroke rather than switching from heel leading to toe leading to regular x would be how I would approach it. If you have some form of magnification to examine you bevel that would be a good thing. A microscope or even a 30x eye loupe can be very helpful in seeing where you are at.

The TNT if good following the initial bevel setting and then don't use it anymore and stick with the TPT. If you are unsure of what the TPT should feel like with a sharp blade take a new DE or SE blade and try the TPT with that to help experience the feeling.

You might have better luck if you go back to the method I have seen gssixgun post;
" Start on the 4k don't go anywhere else but that 4k
make sure it is lapped and even
Start with very light pressure (note not zero pressure)
start doing 10 lap sets
continue doing them until the edge evens up and is nice, smooth and shiny..
The edge has to pop arm hair from the toe to the heel, period
This gives you a repeatable stage in honing....

Once it's there then do 10 more very light very perfect x strokes...
Now and only now go to the 8k
Do 10 lap sets, very light, should take about 20 laps maybe 30 depending on your stroke...
Strop the crap out of it, use .50 paste if you have it, and go shave....

The tuff part is always getting a repeatable point for honing, the more you hone the easier it gets, as your technique improves...."

Also for any other New guys reading this thread.... This is one of the reasons we recommend the Norton system so much to start with... We can actually go so far as to give lap counts (within reason) to help get people where they need to be....

Yes many of us use other systemS now from Shapton, Naniwa and even Coticules... but we can't give that exact advice out that we can with the Nortons that most of us started with.. and many of us still use...

Originally Posted by tinkersd

I did try to polish on the 8K, final polish that is, useing 20 strokes heel leading, 20 toe leading, 20 flat across, and 20 X patern strokes to get good coverage of the edge,

I am counting 80 laps here, that is just way to many (Lynn has a great saying about honing "Less is more")..... I am going to guess that you are not where you need to be at the 4k level.... Also all that switching of angle might be messing up the stoke, KISS it and get a shaving edge first, then play around on the next 100 razors you hone

Now go get the edge sharp and go shave

Oh yeah, and let us know how it goes!!!!!

I don't think it's a good idea to be doing all those different angles on the 8k, but curious what the experts think.

But this screams more attention at the 4k to me. Whenever I have a razor that's 80% where I want it to be, I usually conclude the problem was at 1k or 4k. Rarely at the polishing stages, as that part is easy if you get the edge right to begin with. So if you are 98% happy with edge, do some more laps on 8k or above. If you are any less happy than that, then you need to go back to 4k or 1k. For me, if I feel like the 4k is fighting me (it's not easy to keep the whole edge on the hone with light light pressure), then I go to 1k.

I've got a real nice ATOR 7/8 that I'm only 94% happy with and I went back to 1k and 4k last night, and plan to polish it up. And I have to say that I can already tell the difference in getting less fight from the 4k. So I'm hopeful I'll get it this time.

No it's not possible that a Solingen razor is bad. No Way.

Great advice already given. All I will add is.................LESS STROKES ARE BETTER! For a new Solingen razor unless one of the borderline unstamped shank ones, a pyramid starting at 3 or 5 strokes would be good starting on the 4K. Glen's method of X strokes on the 4K in sets of 10 strokes until it shaves the forearm is very good too. Then move to the 8K for 10 strokes and then the pastes.

It will click for you after a couple make the grade.

Lynn

well I've added about all I can here ...........
wait... get a microscope

While the font size was comparable to using a chainsaw to cut your fingernails, we must give the OP credit due to the fact that his capitalization scheme was quite acceptable for the internet. His caps lock key is fine.

Tinkersd, the font shows up large enough on my monitor that it's actually uncomfortable to read. If the internet font size is too small for you, then might I suggest a tip:

In Firefox or Internet explorer, hold down one of the "ctrl" keys while tapping the "+" or the "-" keys. The font in your web browser should appear larger or smaller, depending on the key you hit. If you want to return your web browser to the original font settings, then hold the "ctrl" key and the number 0 sumultaneously.

In addition to seeing your own typing show up larger, other's posts will appear in the same font size.

Or find your reading glasses